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PROTRACK » GENERAL » Bendigo Presentations

Bendigo Presentations

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1 Bendigo Presentations on Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:46 am

mwebster

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Is it just me and because I have not been physically "on the scene" for a couple of years, especially at Bendigo, can anyone give me a sane & logic explanation as to why the Presentation area was so far removed from the "people" that were there on both days of the carnival.

I questioned some "Bendigo officials" as to why it was placed where it was behind the Starting area of the 120m Gift track and beside the Mobile Scoreboard.

The reply I got back was "everyone liked it there last year so we put it back there again this year".

Who are these "everyone" people ??

The athletes, trainers, bike riders and the most important people, the paying public, that I discussed this with were disappointed and disgusted in its position...

The organising committee at Bendigo (mainly bike people) need to be reminded that if the public are not happy then they may reconsider their options for future meetings.

Really, what if the AFL decided to award the Premier Medallions to the winning Grand Final team inside the Members "Long Room" and then televised it onto the scoreboards outside to the public..........What do you think the outcry would be......

We as a concerned organisation need to let the Bendigo committee know that it needs to be back on the arena in an area that it fitting for all.

Thank you, my "rant" is over

Good luck to all for the rest of the season Very Happy

2 Re: Bendigo Presentations on Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:41 pm

jknott123


maybe someone can also tell you why at the entrance there was a sign saying only competing runners and trainers are admitted free,what does competing trainer mean?

3 Re: Bendigo Presentations on Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:22 pm

Slowcoach


While we are having a whinge, the gate entry fee for this meet has become outrageous. $15 for Saturday and $25 for Sunday. ($35 for a two day pass). I know a number of people who didn't attend because of this.

4 Re: Bendigo Presentations on Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:02 pm

DDog


Another whinge. Don't understand why Bendigo don't conduct a 100m/120m Masters event. The big meetings Stawell, Ballarat, Maryborough, Wangaratta etc. all have this race. The entries for this event are usually big often only second to the open gift. It is a two day event which allows plenty of scope for programming.

5 Re: Bendigo Presentations on Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:37 pm

Fast


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More improvements

Bendigo one of the best meetings on the calendar and on a very nice track could have a well-structured Junior program for both genders, a junior under 18 boys and girls gift, the same as Ballarat, at very little cost.

....and while we are suggesting improvements ......can we encourage meetings to fill the lanes in finals and semi-finals, there are 8 lanes fill them, athletes are paying big entry fees so should be given more opportunities to compete in finals...and why were there only 9 spots in the final of the Women’s 400m?

6 Re: Bendigo Presentations on Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:51 pm

Trackstar

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Fair call by Matt Webster. two time Bendigo winner so has cred.
But I really wish Ballarat people would stop lecturing other clubs on how to run a meet. Bendigo has the bikes. Its a different meet to Ballarat. gets a much bigger crowd for a start. Their program is OK as it is.
should only EVER be 6 in the Bendigo 120 final. lets keep some traditions.

7 Re: Bendigo Presentations on Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:28 pm

Hubbaup


Got to agree with Trackstar in regards to six in the Final. The bigger Gifts should be six only in the final. Stawell, Stonnington,Bendigo all have this format. I'd actually like Ballarat to follow in their footsteps. Just personal preference for me though,six makes making the final a little more special and more elite in my opinion

8 Re: Bendigo Presentations on Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:21 am

Fast


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Not going to happen Hubbaup...Ballarat’s charter is to act in the best interest of athletes and to put runners first, maximising their opportunities. Athletes want to run in finals and if there is a vacant lane we are depriving someone of an opportunity.

Even if you want to maintain traditions in a few finals there are opportunities to have full lanes in semi-finals and all other finals...especially for Juniors and Masters. The more we have in finals the greater the interest from parents and connections and the more people we attract to professional running and the greater the satisfaction for the athlete. Handicappers also want to see more runners run in finals so they can more accurately handicap. Only one can win but many can make finals.


There once was a time when there were only 5 runners in the Stawell Gift final, even traditions progress.

Entry fees for races have increased significantly in proportion to the prize money on offer, so in my opinion athletes should be given value and the opportunity to compete in semi-finals and finals especially when there are vacant lanes.

9 Re: Bendigo Presentations on Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:38 am

Hubbaup


Fair enough Fast all good valid reasons for an eight person Final too. It's only my preference for six in the Classics and bigger Group 1's that's all. The 2017 Ballarat Womens final was certainly a pretty classy field of 8 runners

10 Re: Bendigo Presentations on Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:13 am

Doona


Fast I cannot disagree with to much you are saying and the intentions of your email are certainly one that wish to grow the sport and I applaud you for that. I am a little struck by why you think though that this is in the best interest of Athletes and putting running first.

I have never seen anything come out with any substance regards what the athletes want in this instance and hence I do not believe that you have got around to all the Athlete's to get real & proper feedback in this area.

My personal thoughts are in line with Hubbap and that for a few of the sacred meetings (lets call them that) that tradition in a way remains and rather than maximising opportunities we maximise performance and make it a real challenge to make these finals.

One of the best events on our Calender is the Vets 300 and it is great because it is cut throat, I think that watching this as a spectator is better than watching the 400m heats say at Bendigo where the winners and next 20 or so fastest make the semi's. This is catering for mediocrity and we need to be careful there.

I believe there is a happy medium that can be met, that both camps of thought are happy with by turning good events into great events without losing runners at the same time.

11 Re: Bendigo Presentations on Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:23 am

SANCHEZ


I must say I much prefer 6 man finals if gifts. They are much better to watch as you can watch everyone in the race. It also allows a better spread of prizemoney, making it worthwhile to make a final. The spread of prizemoney in the gift at Bendigo is too lopsided. $1000 for second place and only $50 for sixth is not ideal either. $700 for second would be ample, allowing a bit extra for minor placegetters.

12 Re: Bendigo Presentations on Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:39 am

Fast


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Doona the evidence is …. just that athletes I coach and talk to want to make finals so the more you have in finals the more opportunities you provide the more satisfied they are …especially juniors but not only juniors.

The prize money and the prize money allocation is a completely different argument, but I do agree, as it is only the winners (unless target time is broken) that receives a penalty the other prize money should be more evenly spread.

I was once standing next to a spectator at Stawell and he said why do they have 8 lanes and only 6 runners it looks like there is 2 scratching.... Just something to think about.

13 Re: Bendigo Presentations on Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:01 am

Doona


Fast I cannot say you are wrong & I cannot say that you are right in this instance, I certainly appreciate you view point.

I concur that your understanding of the Juniors is more than likely correct but I am just guessing as there is no evidence to suggest that it is just a hunch, and they are what will potentially grow our sport so need to be considered but they are only a portion of our runners and consideration must be given to all.

Opportunities I believe as you say can occur at smaller meets lets not just throw the baby out with the bath water, but don't you feel for the prized meets lets keep it special and make runners work for there spot (less participation and more competing), who know it may teach those juniors a valuable listen at the same time.

I am a bit of a traditionalist I confess and think with the numbers we get that maybe Stawell should go back to 5 runners, but that's just my heart talking ;-)

Cheers

14 Re: Bendigo Presentations on Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:31 am

youngy

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Spot on Sanchez & Doona

My guess is Fast is not talking for the majority but from his own point of view. So he surveyed his own athletes who of course would be heavily influenced by his  bias/opinion. It is hardly a representation of the majority of senior athletes across the board.

The tradition of professional running for the most aprt of the 20th century was a maximum of 5 or 6 in a final. Only in the last 25 years or so, and it's probably something that evolved with the merger of amateur and professional athletics have we seen this increase to 8 athletes in a gift final.

The Stawell Gift moved permanently from 5 semi finals to six semi finals in 1988. My guess is there were a number of factors that contributed to this - significant increase in entries through the 1980's;  the Stawell Athletic Club wanted an extra semi final for the TV coverage, with many genuine national & international level athletes in the field it was an extra spot available; many of the Gifts at the time already had 6 in the final.  

In 1878, the Stawell Gift started with a six man final. In fact for the first 14 years, 1878 to 1891, it was always a six man final. From 1892 to 1921 the Stawell Gift would fluctuate between 4 and 6 in a final depending on entries, prizemoney availability and the mood at the time.

In 1922 the SAC made it a five man final (5 semi finals) and it stayed that way for 66 years until 1988.

The 1988 Stawell Gift was the first six-man final since 1914. It has been a (scheduled) six man final since 1988 until now, although in 1999, due to a dead heat in the 2nd semi final there were seven in the final. Again in the 2014 Stawell Gift following a 'supposed' dead heat there were 7 in the final.

I'm not a fan of Maryborough and Ballarat's 8 man finals. I would much prefer to see six semis with semi-final winners only into the final. The exciting cut throat nature of the semis for classic gifts like the Bay Sheffield and the Stawell Gift is what sets them apart as the elite.

Bendigo was a five man final until 1988 then moved to a six man final in line with other major gifts.

I have expressed my disappointment to the SAAL regarding this year's Loxton Gift. For the first 15 years, Loxton was scheduled as a six man final (except when it had 7 due to dead heats in the semis).

Loxton had 8 in the final this year and in my view:
1. It diluted the quality of the race, with 2 just making up the numbers.
2. It probably robbed the 300m of 2 genuine contenders.
3. We had trouble finding athletes for the skins this year and it might have freed up 2 extras.
4. In a night final it's hard to see all 8 athletes during 13secs.

Interestingly what it did do,  was make it a round 100 Loxton Gift finalists in the last 16 years. (13 years of six, 2 years of seven & 1 year of eight)

Hopefully it returns to a six man final next year.


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15 Re: Bendigo Presentations on Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:51 am

mwebster

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DDog wrote:Another whinge. Don't understand why Bendigo don't conduct a 100m/120m Masters event. The big meetings Stawell, Ballarat, Maryborough, Wangaratta etc. all have this race. The entries for this event are usually big often only second to the open gift. It is a two day event which allows plenty of scope for programming.

DDog,

A number of years ago (maybe 9 or 10), the Bendigo Club returned the Masters 120 metre event and there were enough entries for 6 heats (48 athletes). On the day of the running of the heats, only about 10 athletes decided to turn up and run.

There were "walk overs" and "no show heats" which did not fare well with the Club, so what did they do, they dropped all Masters events.

It was only recently that they were encouraged to introduce the 300 metre Masters and it has been a success for them as any other club that has run this event would agree with their decision.

And as for scope for programming, are you aware that the programming revolves around the cycling events and the running is just a "fill in" between for the cyclists. The program cannot be set until the "main man" there says so.

16 Re: Bendigo Presentations on Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:04 am

Fast


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My preference is for 8 in a final and not to leave lanes vacant……but 6 semi-finals of 6 is a reasonable model as it gives 36 into semis, which given where the numbers of entries are, is adequate…. but wouldn’t it be great to have around 200 entries and 8 semi-finals and 8 to final.

Juniors however is different, Bendigo only having 2 semi-finals of 6 was, in my opinion, well under catered for.

17 Re: Bendigo Presentations on Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:18 am

youngy

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Fast wrote:My preference is for 8 in a final and not to leave lanes vacant……but 6 semi-finals of 6 is a reasonable model as it gives 36 into semis, which given where the numbers of entries are, is adequate…. but wouldn’t it be great to have around 200 entries and 8 semi-finals and 8 to final.  

Juniors however is different, Bendigo only having 2 semi-finals of 6 was, in my opinion, well under catered for.


No. Greater to maintain a tradition that's unique to our sport.


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18 Re: Bendigo Presentations on Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:37 am

Doona


Sorry Fast I know it feels like we are ganging up on you here but I assure you we are not a few of us not wanting to let go of what we feel is great, at the end of the day it is personal opinion and I certainly understand where your argument is coming from.

However the harder you make it the greater the event, yes would be fantastic to have 200 runners to an 8 final. However I still think it would be greater to have 200 runners to 5 in the final, asks a lot of more questions to a lot more Athletes and only the chosen few respond under such pressure.

I think that is what I found so great about young Talia's run last year, under immense pressure you felt like it was slipping away from her but she responded in the final when it all mattered. For a young girl to hold her cool and run the final that she did was admirable.

Who knows with 200 runners we could almost have 4 rounds and with that sort of pressure to get there, well it becomes enthralling and hats off to those that survive.

Competition before participation in big events is the way to go.

Have I convinced you yet ;-) haha

19 Re: Bendigo Presentations on Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:23 pm

Fast


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No...have I convinced you?

Doona…I don’t mind considered argument and I understand the traditional argument as it is a strong one.

My view is - approximately one third of the entries should make it to the semi-finals, 15 % to 20% making semi-finals is not a growth model, especially when we are charging $40 to $60 to enter these gifts and we are wanting to encourage entries. Even for the smaller races around 33% should be given the opportunity to run twice.

The elite v mediocrity argument, in my opinion, is a flawed argument in our sport as we in the most cater for the mediocre. At what point is a handicap considered mediocre is 5m or 8m or 10m or 13m, the limit determines how much mediocrity we want to tolerate and once that limit is set everyone should have the same chance of winning. I agree we should tolerate less mediocrity in our big prize money races but it is still mediocre.

20 Re: Bendigo Presentations on Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:42 pm

Doona


Haha...no you have not convinced me either, but your argument is sound and has merit so appreciate that.

If you are paying $40-$60 entries you would like to see a return & you have a better chance of keeping Athlete's in the sport if that is shared around as such.

I guess we are coming from 2 different directions and personally I look at it from the point of view of what I like to see as a real competition particularly as a spectator, also the challenge it takes to get there.

We will have to agree to disagree on this occasion, hopefully we can find that happy medium in the future Smile

21 Re: Bendigo Presentations on Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:51 pm

mwebster

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Gentlemen,

What started out as a "venting of my spleen" over the Presentation area for the Bendigo Gift this year, has now been overtaken by others discussing other matters that are not relevant to the topic.

I have no problems with your own "beefs" with "whatever", but can you do it under another banner and get back to the original topic, the ridiculous area that the presentations were made from.

Thank you Very Happy

22 Re: Bendigo Presentations on Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:59 pm

Doona


Sorry Matty,

My apologise, I think we are finished now.

Please continue your thread Wink

23 Re: Bendigo Presentations on Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:07 pm

mwebster

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No worries Doona,

Just don't twitch on the starting line this weekend at Euroa.......lol

24 Re: Bendigo Presentations on Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:48 pm

Mex

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mwebster wrote:Gentlemen,

What started out as a "venting of my spleen" over the Presentation area for the Bendigo Gift this year, has now been overtaken by others discussing other matters that are not relevant to the topic.

I have no problems with your own "beefs" with "whatever", but can you do it under another banner and get back to the original topic, the ridiculous area that the presentations were made from.  

Thank you Very Happy

All presentations should be visible to the main spectating area. If you look at carnivals that have a grandstand the presentations are generally held in front of these or close to it. With Bendigo the crowd is all around so I would pick a place directly in front of the stands for maximum viewing. Front or back straight does not matter at Bendigo for mine but where Matthew has talked about is not good. Perhaps a friendly suggestion through the VRTA would be the best avenue to take?

As for the other issues mentioned there are guidelines to follow and it is up to each club to decide what works best for themselves. Perhaps we could open a new thread for suggested improvements to VAL meets in a more constructive way?

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