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PROTRACK » GENERAL » Heat times

Heat times

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1 Heat times on Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:16 pm

Trevorpayne


Having been to both ASA and SAAL this weekend.
I struggle to see why the open sprint heats differ so much
All the junior heats are pretty well balanced as are the over 35's
But then you hit the women's and men's open and you have no consistency
SAAL women and ASA difference between 1st and last

     
heat 1 1.3 sec heat 1 at ASA .53
                         heat 2 2.5 sec heat 2 at ASA 1 sec
                         Heat 3 1.3 sec heat 3 at ASA .5 sec
                         Heat 4  1.2 sec heat 4 at ASA  .78
Taking into account that ASA also includes abled  body athletes and those with disabilities all competing together . I struggle to see how a system that's supposed to create a tighter finish is so far away.



Last edited by Trevorpayne on Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:51 pm; edited 1 time in total

2 Re: Heat times on Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:47 pm

2cents


May not be my place to comment but ASA works completely different to SAAL. ASA heats are set up so they are racing people that have ran similar times in the past, so of course its going to be close.
I assume you are talking about the difference between the winner and last place. There are always going to be new athletes who are still on the novice mark, also a range of different ages/experience in the open and womens races, never going to get them all to hit the line together.
From my experience with SAAL, its the 'in form' athletes that usually do well no matter what the handicap.

3 Re: Heat times on Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:07 pm

Trevorpayne


2cents wrote:May not be my place to comment but ASA works completely different to SAAL. ASA heats are set up so they are racing people that have ran similar times in the past, so of course its going to be close.
I assume you are talking about the difference between the winner and last place. There are always going to be new athletes who are still on the novice mark, also a range of different ages/experience in the open and womens races, never going to get them all to hit the line together.
From my experience with SAAL, its the 'in form' athletes that usually do well no matter what the handicap.
Hi
Get what you are saying but to be fair that happens across the board including the the over 35's and juniors at both meets.
Also the juniors are probably more likely to make the biggest gains so you would expect bigger margins.
I thought you where supposed to submitted your fastest times over a year to SAAL at the start of the season and handicaps worked out from that.
As far as I can see everyone's stayed on the same mark in the women's but moved back a metre at the start of the season in the women's which means the faster ones win by more.
Realy what I am saying is the handicapper hasn't put the time and effort in when there is over 15 metres between first and last in a heat.
Which is way there is a repetition week after week.
Regarding inform I think most athletes times that run on a regular basis are quite consistent but still a huge difference in metre rates per sec.
Which maybe way athletes that would of competed in 100,300and 400 races at the same meet choose to individualise thier races more.

4 Re: Heat times on Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:07 am

Spiderman

avatar
all you seem to do Trevor is come on here and complain about something not being fair blah blah blah! its getting old and really shows your lack of knowledge in the sport! I agree with 2 cents! the inform athletes are always going to be the ones running well, no matter what the handicap is.

5 Re: Heat times on Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:21 am

Trevorpayne


It's not a complaint it's a observation or opinion as I stated i thought the over 35 and juniors where done well
I was just reading the FAQ on the website
WHAT IS HANDICAPPED RUNNING?
In handicap running, competitors start at different positions on the track dependant upon their ability. The backmarker is generally the more naturally gifted athlete and starts behind everyone else. The handicaps are designed to even up the competition just like horse racing so that the running is more fascinating and unpredictable and gives everyone a chance. Athletes such as Joshua Ross, Steve Brimacombe, Brad Jamieson, Mark Ormrod, Nova Peris and Tamsyn Lewis have overcome large handicap starts to win in South Australian Athletic League events and used the sport to enhance their way to represent Australia.
All I'm stating is I see a constant repition in results over the last few seasons
If you want to see that as moaning feel free but I don't think you can argue the fact the handicapping is producing repetition
I understand everyone has differing opinions this mine
Thanks
Trev

6 Re: Heat times on Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:28 pm

2cents


i dont get what you mean 'repition'. Maybe your referring to Kate Monks winning the female 120ms. She has been pulled a metre each win and keeps winning, the handicapper can pull her .5 metre if he wishes but she kept going a metre back. Dont see what you mean, and of course theres going to be 'repition' in whos winning as i and spiderman stated the inform runners will do well.
And if you are referring to the handicpper having 'repition' then wouldnt that be a good thing?

I agree with spiderman, your lack of knowledge of the sport and the system is really showing, its PRO running, the handicapppers have a hard job

7 Re: Heat times on Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:54 pm

Trevorpayne


Ok I have limited knowledge so you put it so let's stick to the facts
The instructions state submit your best times prior to the season starting and your handicap is worked out from that .
So everyone's done this .
So my first question in all honesty can you say the handicaps have been worked out as the SAAL WEBSITE promotes.
Question 2
It says the in FAQ SHEET that everyone sets off in a race to be given an even chance across the board by the handicap given too them .
Again in all honesty do you think this is the case if not then it shouldn't be promoted as this on the web site.
I think the results this season and last prove this is not the case.
And just for the record it's not all about one particular athlete it's about the questions raised above.
Please be honest with your reply and as you state I have little knowledge please give an idiots guide to response that way myself and any others will be able to understand the sheer complexity of how a race that's supposed to give every entry the same chance of winning.
I await your response with anticipation but please stick to the facts on the SAAl site when giving answers.



Last edited by Trevorpayne on Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

8 Re: Heat times on Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:00 pm

2cents


I may not be the best guy to give an answer but i have been around the game for a few years now.
You want my honest opinion, heres my best shot...
let me just start off by saying that not everyone will have a time to submit and this is why they have novice marks. This gives the handicappers a chance to look at them and they can either slowly lift them or pull them.
I havent looked at the SAAL website but just going off what you say is on there, no they may not give everyone the same chance at winning but they try to make it fair to the people who show up to event after event year after year.
I believe that it is set up so you have to be running exceptionally well to win or place off of your mark, going back to the inform athletes. If you are running well, normally you will do well, no matter the handicap, of course this has exceptions eg if you have already won something big and been pulled 3m.
In my experience its the athletes that keep improving keep doing well, they may have say a mark of 9m one year but improve over winter and do really well off of 9m and keep around that mark.
basically, if you want a boring race where everyone starts at the same spot and only get one run in a race, the track is what your looking for. If you want a good atmosphere with the states best athletes chasing down other great runners where you can have up to 3 races in a day, where in the final your going to have a very tight finish then pros is what your looking for.
theres my 2 cents, hope it helped, im out

9 Re: Heat times on Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:37 pm

Trevorpayne


Thanks 2 cents my only concer is how many novices in 6 heats there can't be that many week in week out
Also I don't think he did any calculations on times submitted
Honestly I think the hits are too small and gains to little which is why you have a lot of finals with the same people
That doesn't mean someones who's top speed is 14 and might improve by .25 through solid effort should be giving metres to someone running 12.6 on grass for 100 metres that's up there with best in SA if you knock a bit off for a track
I'm sorry I don't think the  Handicapper is doing his job right or really giving it the attention it needs.



Last edited by Trevorpayne on Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

10 Re: Heat times on Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:17 pm

2cents


You arent the first and you wont be the last
No one is ever going to agree with the handicapper 100%
My best advice is take the good with the bad

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