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PROTRACK » GENERAL » Sprint handicap womens

Sprint handicap womens

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31 Re: Sprint handicap womens on Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:16 pm

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S.hill wrote:His daughter has run two women's 120M
TWO
I guarantee anyone who is Infront of her has run more than two gifts regardless of pbs

From that post aswell if she is only 14 years of age she also is well and truly under the handicappers discretion
They are not going to throw her out too 14-15M have her improve A second by next season which is well and truly possible with maturity and a growth spurt and win the bay Sheffield

How hard is that too understand

It's not hard to understand neither is the system of the handicap if your quick you go red if your slower you go green pink black etc.
She has had 2 runs in the women's and plenty n the under 17's and 14's all consistent times so th evidence is there to see.
Nor will she have a growth spurt as her growth plate have now fused.
I think the real issue is it doesn't matter how fast or slow an athlete runs as long as they run X amount times it's their turn to win. Which I can understand for the juniors but as stated i think diminishes the concept of it being a competition in the open My personal opinion.
So for all those talking about training harder running faster , her dad training etc etc it won't make a jott
of difference .
I now know that as does everyone else.



Last edited by TREVORPAYNE on Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

32 Re: Sprint handicap womens on Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:25 pm

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Betina wrote:Apex you do not need names. Answer his question. Id like to know the answer too.

The question probably should be, how have  athletes with better handicaps than their PBs not won a sash yet?  

Pro running you need to take with a pinch of salt.

I don't know as I only noticed the point I was making when I was looking back through the seasons results.
But I would guess either injury, work commitments or saving themselves for a big race if this happens not saying it does .

33 Re: Sprint handicap womens on Sat Feb 27, 2016 9:01 pm

Hubbaup


Trevor all I can say is be patient and get your daughter in as many events as possible and good things will come in time. My kid made 14 open Women's finals before cracking it for a win. A great ride with a lot of disappointments along the way but also a lot of unexpected highlights including a Stawell Gift Final and a win in the Stonnington Gift last week. If we had of thrown in the towell in the first season when she was getting beaten by 4 metres in every heat then she would have missed out on everything she has achieved. It won't take long for the handicappers to see she needs the lifts and make her competitive. Sometimes they may need a friendly word in their ear to highlight this though. This is where a good trainer is very handy. Good luck With it Trevor I'm sure if she sticks to it there will be some success in the not too distant future

34 Re: Sprint handicap womens on Sat Feb 27, 2016 9:26 pm

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Hubbaup wrote:Trevor all I can say is be patient and get your daughter in as many events as possible and good things will come in time. My kid made 14 open Women's finals before cracking it for a win. A great ride with a lot of disappointments along the way but also a lot of unexpected highlights including a Stawell Gift Final and a win in the Stonnington Gift last week. If we had of thrown in the towell in the first season when she was getting beaten by 4 metres in every heat then she would have missed out on everything she has achieved. It won't take long for the handicappers to see she needs the lifts and make her competitive. Sometimes they may need a friendly word in their ear to highlight this though. This is where a good trainer is very handy. Good luck With it Trevor I'm sure if she sticks to it there will be some success in the not too distant future

Thanks for your reply.
I  appreciate what you have said. As I have said it was not just about my daughter as she has had podium finishes and a couple of sashes . It was about how I started to see a repeat of the same names ,though I never knew how the system worked.
I now do.
Thanks again for taking time.

35 Re: Sprint handicap womens on Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:42 am

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TREVORPAYNE wrote:
The Morphy Mongrel wrote:I've read some insane comments on the forum, but this has to take the cake -

"I asked the question as to why 5 athletes who constantly make the finals of the 120 women's had not had there handicaps reduced.As they significantly faster PBS's than quite a few other athletes."

There are so many things wrong with this I don't know where to start.Sounds like Trevor you can't be told. Give it a rest, you are making a fool of yourself.


Please point out what is wrong as I believe education is good so I eagerly await your reply.

Is it still insane after the latest results.
As you where the only one who never really explained anything.
I think you are now looking the fool.
You are as predictable as the 120 women's races.

36 Re: Sprint handicap womens on Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:39 pm

timj


Trevor , you claim you are relatively new to the sport and trying to get an understanding of how the system works . Fair enough, you are entitled to ask that.
What is frustrating is that you have drawn responses here and in other posts from some of the most experienced people in the sport , ie Shane Mckenzie, Paul Young , Pete Burdett amongst them, and you continually ignore their comments and continue to push this agenda.
I am not sure what you are trying to achieve by airing your grievances on a public forum. For someone who threatens to withdraw athletes from races and have no more dealings with the sport you do seem to spend a lot of time on a website dedicated to Professional running. I’d say time that could be better spent on improving your knowledge of running, pro-running and coaching in general.
The premise of professional running is pretty simple. When you begin in any age or distance category you are going to be put on a conservative mark , usually the novice mark. You run consistently of that mark and the handicapper will adjust you accordingly in relation to the rest of the field in that category (guided on net time). The more consistent you are the more comfortable the handicapper is going to be with an adjustment. The chief steward is there to police the consistency.
It is not uncommon for athletes of similar ability to be off different marks in different categories and this could be for a variety of reasons. Let me give you an example to help explain:
I train with someone that off scratch there is not much between us at all. It basically come downs to who has a heavier lunch before training to who runs quicker. Until Camden I started a metre behind him in a 70m race and I started a metre in front of him in a 120m. That’s a 2m turn around over a short sprint. Why this is so comes down to multiple things but they include things like I qualify for veterans races so my second or fall back race after the gift would , on most occasions, be the veterans 120 while my training partner would run the 70m. He runs more 70’s the handicapper sees more of his form over that distance, he is more comfortable adjusting his mark. He is not going to move me over 70m based on how I run in a veterans 120m. It’s like comparing apples with oranges, they’re 2 very different things. My training partner has also had successes in 120m races in recent years and he has had his 120m mark adjusted accordingly in relation to the field to reflect that.
This is just a very quick example between 2 athletes, imagine the job the handicapper has in processing this type of information for a whole field of athletes. Its not an easy job at all and I take my hat off to them. 99% of the time they have it right and to be honest, the times that one slips “ under the radar” usually has more to do with the athlete than the handicapper.
Back to being unhappy with a handicaps. There is a process which can be followed through official league channels to query ones handicap. This might be a surprise but it is not the protrack website!. As a coach of a SAAL registered athlete you have an obligation to be aware of, and if you feel it warranted, follow that process. By following this you will find out exactly the answer you’re looking for without having to go on public forums .
let me ask you Trevor : after all this posting on Protrack have you really found out the answer to your question? Perhaps following due process through the league it might’ve been a less painful experience and would have received the answer to you query.
It would be quite easy to turn around and say to you : ‘ if you don’t like it, get lost ’ but what would that achieve?. Professional running is designed to be inclusive and caters to people of all abilities, that’s what makes it such an unique sport!. I’ve spoken to overseas athletes and they are amazed by our sport. Outside a couple of states in Australia and a bit in Scotland, there is nothing like it in the world! Your daughter sounds like she has a great future in athletics. It would be a shame that she could miss out on the opportunities professional running provides both on and off the track due to misunderstandings or mis-interpretations by her coach/father.
While probably against my better judgement I’ve weighed into this debate and I’m not going to get into a war of words from behind a keyboard. That said I am more than happy to discuss face to face and share some of the experiences I have been so lucky to have had from the perspective of 25 years as a competing league athlete and also a life member of a Amateur athletic club. Experiences that are far greater than just running down a track.
Trevor , I hope you can get past this hiccup and get some clarity so you and your daughter can enjoy this amazing sport !.
Regards
Tim Johnson

37 Re: Sprint handicap womens on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:17 pm

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timj wrote:Trevor ,  you claim you are relatively new to the sport and trying to get an understanding of how the system works . Fair enough, you are entitled to ask that.
What is frustrating is that you have drawn responses here and in other posts  from some of the most experienced people in the sport , ie Shane Mckenzie, Paul Young , Pete Burdett amongst them,  and you continually ignore their comments and continue to push this agenda.
I am not sure what you are trying to achieve by airing your grievances on a public forum.  For someone who threatens to withdraw athletes from races and have no more dealings with the sport you do seem to spend a lot of time on a website dedicated to Professional running.  I’d say time that could be better spent on improving your knowledge of running, pro-running and coaching in general.
The premise of professional running is pretty simple. When you begin in any age or distance category you are going to be put on a conservative mark , usually the novice mark.  You run consistently of that mark and the handicapper will adjust you accordingly in relation to the rest of the field in that category (guided on net time). The more consistent you are the more comfortable the handicapper is going to be with an adjustment. The chief steward is there to police the consistency.
It is not uncommon for athletes of similar ability to be off different marks in different categories and this could be for a variety of reasons. Let me give you an example to help explain:
I train with someone that off scratch there is not much between us at all. It basically come downs to who has a heavier lunch before training to who runs quicker. Until Camden I started a metre behind him in a 70m race and  I started a metre in front of him in a 120m. That’s a 2m turn around over a short sprint. Why this is so comes down to multiple things but they include things like I qualify for veterans races so my second  or fall back race after the gift would , on most occasions, be the veterans 120 while my training partner would run the 70m. He runs more 70’s the handicapper sees more of his form over that distance, he is more comfortable adjusting his mark. He is not going to move me over 70m based on how I run in a veterans 120m. It’s like comparing apples with oranges, they’re  2 very different things.  My training partner has also had  successes in 120m races in recent years and he has had his 120m mark adjusted accordingly in relation to the field to reflect that.
This is just a very quick example between 2 athletes, imagine the job the handicapper has in processing this type of information for a whole field of athletes. Its not an easy job at all and I take my hat off to them.  99% of the time they have it right and to be honest, the times that one slips “ under the radar” usually has more to do with the athlete than the handicapper.
Back to being unhappy with a handicaps. There is a process which can be followed through official league channels  to query ones handicap. This might be a surprise but it is not the protrack website!.  As a coach of a SAAL registered  athlete you have an obligation to be aware of, and if you feel it warranted, follow that process.  By following this you will find out exactly the answer you’re looking for without having to go on public forums .
let me ask you Trevor : after all this posting on Protrack have you really found out the answer to your question? Perhaps following due process through the league it might’ve been a less painful experience and would have received the answer to you query.
It would be quite easy to turn around and say to you : ‘ if you don’t like it,  get lost ’  but what would that achieve?. Professional running is designed to be inclusive and caters to people of all abilities, that’s what makes it such an unique sport!.  I’ve spoken to overseas athletes  and they are amazed by our sport. Outside a couple of states in Australia and a bit in Scotland, there is nothing like it in the world! Your daughter sounds like she has a great future in athletics. It would be a shame that she could miss out on the opportunities professional running provides both on and off the track due to misunderstandings or mis-interpretations by her coach/father.
While probably against my better judgement I’ve weighed into this debate and I’m not going to get into a war of words from behind a keyboard. That said I am more than happy to discuss face to face and share some of the experiences I have been so lucky to have had from the perspective of  25 years as a competing league athlete and also a life member of a Amateur athletic club. Experiences that are far greater than just running down a track.
Trevor , I hope you can get past this hiccup and get some clarity so you and your daughter can enjoy this amazing sport !.
Regards
Tim Johnson

Ok
Thank you

38 Re: Sprint handicap womens on Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:10 pm

racingmania


Hey Youngy do you have a special protrack award for putting out bushfires? Tim Johnson deserves a medal.

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