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PROTRACK » GENERAL » Over 35 handicapping

Over 35 handicapping

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1 Over 35 handicapping on Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:45 am

Whispers


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Event 86 - 120m Over 35 - Final:
Position Name Colour Mark Time
1 Cassie Neubauer Green 21.50m 13.605
2 Glenn Ross Red 3.00m 13.618
3 Lyn Peake Black 31.50m 13.640
4 Cameron Yorke White 4.00m 13.695
5 Darcy Cheney Blue 28.00m 13.772
- Tom Hecimovic Yellow 16.50m Scr

Thought the New Boy on the block earns a PASSmark for his first Bay.
Maybe the winner had half metre more than I felt she should have had but she turns up and runs most weeks.
To have a final of half locals ,half interstaters, handicaps from 3.00m out to 31.50m and get a result of only.167 difference between the whole field at the end is a good result.
Pretty sure Hecimovic won his heat in around 13.50 so had he not injured himself ,he may have won or certainly have slotted somewhere in the middle so it would have looked even better.
Old Codgers form is pretty well exposed but all in all well done for your first go at it.

2 Re: Over 35 handicapping on Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:02 pm

youngy

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I get the impression Whispers has an affiliation with Tea Tree Gully just as some of those associated with the Over 35's win.

There's elements of the result that require further scrutiny.

Neaubauer was the third slowest of all the athletes at Henley, up to 6m out of the race. At the Bay she had an advantage of almost 2m after the heats.

Based on the 10 athletes who ran at both Henley and the Bay, the average improvement from the first carnival to the Bay Sheffield was 2.65m. Cassie Neubauer improved 8.79m. That's 331% better than the average.

In my view, it represents an improvement far beyond the scope of what would be normally considered acceptable.

But that wasn't the most concerning aspect of this result.

The fact she was allowed to scratch from a 70m semi final to remain fresh for the Over 35's 120m final was extraordinary.

An athlete should not be able to scratch from a semi unless its for injury/illness and then the athlete should not be allowed to compete for the rest of the day.

It's certainly not a precedent I'm comfortable with. The handicapper draws the semis and then gets told one athlete has been allowed to scratch? What if next time 3 or 4 decide to go down that path. It's just ridiculous.

Given the rubbish I had to put up with last year with respect to he outrageous allegations made about the Restricted, this Over 35's result is a farce. And in my view warrants further investigation.


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3 Re: Over 35 handicapping on Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:32 pm

SANCHEZ


Agree 100% with you Youngy regarding athletes scratching or even running another event when already qualified for a final. It has happened a few times in Vic this year and should not be allowed. A runner who runs in another event before their final should be fined and given an NAP in both events. The runner is telling the world he has no intention of winning the other race. I'd go as far as giving a handicap penalty the equivalent of what they would have received for victory.

4 Re: Over 35 handicapping on Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:50 pm

Phantom

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From what I understand the SAAL needs to explain the conflict of interest that exists around this result. Too many questions around this result for my liking.

5 Re: Over 35 handicapping on Sun Jan 03, 2016 7:44 pm

Whispers


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Hey Youngy
You have obviously got a Bee in your bonnet with the Over 35 Handicapper .
As for the affiliation with TTG I will visit the Club on the 23rd for my only time of the year.
To go back 10 weeks yes 10 weeks to Henley for the first race of the season and question an athletes improvement at the Bay ,surely all athletes are at different stages of their prep.Probably a problem the league has with the lack of 120m races leading into the Bay.
As for Naeubaur scratching from the Semis of the 70m Im sure she got permission to do so.I know the rules say you cant do it, but as we found we Ross allocated minus 1 m mark the rules are only on paper only.
Also to take a pot shot at the Over 35 handicapper as you did on Twitter is unprofessional and whatever the feud you have with each other ,Both of you should get over it and move on.

6 Re: Over 35 handicapping on Sun Jan 03, 2016 8:22 pm

200runner


So rules can be changed when the saal want but as soon as someone's finger crosses the line first they cop a $25 good to see the saal have there priorities in order

7 Re: Over 35 handicapping on Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:06 am

Baltimore Jack


I'm with Phantom, from what I heard there is a conflict of interest with the result and think for the sake of the integrity of the Over 35s race, this should be looked at further. Sounds to me like Whispers wants to sweep it under the carpet, but I think youngy poses a legitimate question.

8 Re: Over 35 handicapping on Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:16 am

Whispers


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As a handicapper ,Youngy is also an Official therefore is also a Steward so if he wished to bring up a performance from 10 weeks ago and / or a conflict of interest than I suggest the CALL should have been made on the day as an Officiating Steward instead of through a forum post meeting.
So Phantom and Baltimore Jack , what you are both saying, is that Neubaur isnt allowed to win a race whilst The Current Over 35 Handicapper is handicapping.
Results speak for themselves , show me an Over 35 120m final down at the Bay where its been tighter from 1st to last, show me a final where the locals and interstaters share the spots, and show me a final where handicaps go from 3m to 31.50. The Handicapper has done a pretty good job for his first time. And at least he put his hand up to do it.
And where does Conflict Of Interest Begin and Stop.

9 Re: Over 35 handicapping on Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:57 am

racingmania


No-one saying she isn't allowed to win a race. The problem you have Whispers is she won THE race in his first year as handicapper.

10 Re: Over 35 handicapping on Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:29 am

Whispers


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I have no issue with the result whatsoever , just thought she may have had around .50m more than I thought she should have had as I mentioned in the opening post.
The way I see it ,is, the SAAL selected Shane to be Handicapper, Accepted Neubaurs registration to run as an Over 35 so if anyone has an issue regarding conflict of interest , sour grapes or whatever , put it in writing to the SAAL .
In Otherwords PUT UP OR SHUT UP

11 Re: Over 35 handicapping on Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:57 am

youngy

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Frankly Whispers you have the integrity of a sewer rat. So your criticism is water off a duck's back. You have knocked up casting aspersions on athletes, coaches & officials so many times, it's a joke. And disingenuously stretched the truth to suit your agenda time and again. So you are hardly in a position to question my take on an issue.

15 years ago I did not attend the Stawell Gift because I felt the conflict of interest between the handicapper & athlete was intolerable. So when it comes to being a handicapper I believe one must be 100% beyond reproach and there can be absolutely no conflict of interest perceived or otherwise. The handicapper is the one position where the conflict must be avoided at all costs.

At no stage have I suggested any impropriety, but I have raised it (athlete/handicapper relationship), because you came out and gave him a pass mark without mentioning the obvious conflict of interest. The issue of the Over 35's 120m at the Bay was a massive talking point among Over 35 athletes and I spoke to several who were uncomfortable with the situation.

I understand Shane Grimwade did advise the SAAL he was coaching Cassie Neubauer and the SAAL accepted the situation was manageable and appointed him handicapper.

Yep we can move on, but people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.


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12 Re: Over 35 handicapping on Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:35 pm

Biggsy

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Hi Gentlemen,

For obvious reasons I do not wish to buy into this discussion, and neither should I. However I ask you to be mindful of how hurtful some of these discussions can be. From my perspective, the winner of the event fills the following criteria:
1. She has worked very hard
2. Every time she competes she competes with flare and to the best of her ability
3. She has been improving week upon week all season.

Therefore a very worthy winner. I ask you to be mindful of how hurtful some of these issues can be and what should and shouldn't be discussed in a public forum.

Also, and this is a suggestion and nothing else: with regard to scratching from one final to concentrate on another, is the main issue is that it deprives someone that could have run in the final? If so, under these circumstances, why cant the next fastest be elevated to take their place? From a runners perspective, qualifying for 2 finals presents a real dilemma as you cant do justice to both.

13 Re: Over 35 handicapping on Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:24 pm

SANCHEZ


I'm not comfortable with runners pulling out and the next in line replacing them. Big stables can then manipulate results. If you don't want to win a final , don't run in the heats. We have the problem in Vic of runners already qualified for a gift final running in a heat or final of a 300 or 400 before the gift final. You are just saying "I don't want to win this race and are waiting for something better". An automatic fine should be implemented for this. If you pull out of any race on that day, you shouldn't be allowed to compete for the rest of the day.

14 Re: Over 35 handicapping on Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:25 pm

youngy

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Point taken Biggsy, but
1. You are well aware of the criticism of the previous Over 35's handicapper, and
2. This thread was started by Whispers who failed to mention the "elephant in the room" which in my view was fairly critical information given it was a huge talking point at the Bay.

I do agree with you that the athlete herself did absolutely nothing wrong.


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15 Re: Over 35 handicapping on Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:33 pm

Whispers


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I asked around last night as to what mark the Over 35 should receive for his effort at the Bay.
Not one person graded him Under 5 out of 10 so for all you Sheep ( bit better name than Sewer Rat ) that came on here and degraded me for giving him a PASS Mark I can inform you all that you are in the minority that Marked him at less than 5 out 10.
In my time any mark over 5 is a PASS so the fact that you have all had a go at me for Passing him I can only feel that your Marking is less than 5
And may I add, he would have had a lot of things have to go wrong for him to get a mark less than 5 BAA BAAA BAA

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