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PROTRACK » GENERAL » Camden Handicaps

Camden Handicaps

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31 Re: Camden Handicaps on Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:50 pm

S.hill


I think the issue biggsy is that there are guys that run every 400m for the season and haven't had a lift in 5-6 runs compared to clay just running camden (over 400m)
However in saying that
If clay wins he would definately be a deserving winner creating camden history
It's set to be a close finish and Hilly is excited!

32 Re: Camden Handicaps on Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:31 pm

Whispers


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Really cant fathom the handicappers thinking in giving the handicap increase to Watkins and Keenan compared to others .
Hilly I think you are way off the mark when you say 5 or 6 runs, perhaps it would have been better to say 5 to 6 seasons.If handicaps were rewarded for loyalty there would be several runners running off the limit.
Clays been thrown right in there with a huge chance ,everyone likes to see the RED win and Whispers is no different, I think if Clay wins he should shout Stenson a drink after the race.
The big query is Keenan ,bet he couldnt book his plane seat quick enough ,Two NO SHOWS in consectative years and leading the VRTA Points Award at the moment in the 400m to 800m distances yet gifted two metres since he last ran at Camden .

33 Re: Camden Handicaps on Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:42 am

Whispers


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Great win by Clay and nothing like seeing the RED win.

But I really feel for 400m running in the SAAL league and dont know what the answer is..
Kostya Khudoshin wins the Pulteney and Sacred Heart 400m since Camden last year, supports the league,wins two sashes for pocket money , maybe he won because he runs HONEST but because of Watkins lift meets Clay 5m worse off from last years Camden Classic.
Clay doesnt run the 400m at these little meetings .
Biggsy talks about rewarding loyalty so who should get rewarded.?
As I see it theres two choices if you want to win the Camden Classic , by pass the other 400m events or turn up and run dead.
Im really concerned for those clubs that choose to put on a 400m race as they wont be getting the athletes support.
The league has a rule, Penalty free Dec for the Bay.
Perhaps we could make Pulteney 400m 2015 and Sacred Heart 400m 2015 penalty free for the Camden Classic 2016 where after the Classic in 2016 you then are penalised for your wins at the Pocket money meetings.
Im really concerned where we are heading when one week you can be running for $150 over 400m and later for $3000

34 Re: Camden Handicaps on Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:24 pm

youngy

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Hahaha...sorry but I couldn't help laughing at Whispers' whinge. It is a nonsense to criticise a lift which did nothing more than allow an athlete to go from around 48.6ish to 48.4.

Seriously, if I was asked pre-race - "Where do you think Clay Watkins will finish if he was to run 48.4 off 6m?" I would have said based on the history of the race.....around 5th to 8th. 

The reality is through a combination of the field being less than usual by about 10 athletes & the overall standard not being up to scratch, Clay could rock up in 47.2 shape and win Camden in 48.4. It was the second slowest winning time in the 36 years of Camden Classics. That's not the handicapper's fault.

A point lost on people like Whispers, these athletes vying for starts in national Grand Prix events cannot simply commit to every pro running meet as they have to balance their schedule. How many of the better 400m athletes in SA have, over the last 15 years, run in the Camden Classic as often as Clay Watkins?

Eg: Check Mark Ormrod's record at Camden. When his commitments to the national schedule increased, Mark (understandably) rarely ran with the League & stopped running at Camden by the time he was 21. 

The SAAL is fortunate that they can rely on Clay as the only athlete (& only genuine elite 400m runner in SA) on a single digit handicap to commit to Camden each year. There are still athletes in SA athletics, who in my view haven't the earned the right to carry Clay's bags, who refuse to run At Camden, because of some delusion they are too good to for the SAAL. Clay gives the race integrity & credibility. And his win does more for the race than any other athlete winning would have done. The rest of the athletics world sits up & takes notice of the Camden Classic. It gets a profile across the land it wouldn't have if a regular SAAL athlete runs in the event.

Camden is a CLASSIC race on the national pro running calendar. By its very nature, as a 400m Classic, like Bendigo & Devonport, it attracts athletes beyond just the average pro race. It is not Henley or Sacred Heart. The standard required to win goes up exponentially. There is no requirement to have to run at every meet to run at Camden. Vic  & Tassie athletes don't begrudge elite athletes running in their classic races, even if they do get marks that might be considered generous. 

And one more thing, I won't mention names, but I reckon there's about 6 SA athletes, who in my view, if they were specifically set for Camden off their current handicap, would run a time a lot faster thsn 48.4. They are under-performing and it is indicative of the malaise in 400m running in SA that has gone on for about 7 years. Clay Watkins is not a freak of nature, there have been other athletes around the place quite capable of running low 47s or better but for one reason or another have failed to realise their potential. 

...now back to the SuperBowl.


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35 Re: Camden Handicaps on Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:14 pm

Whispers


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If you happened to read my prerace post you would see that I predicted Clay was in with more than a thin chance.Definately not having a whinge but why the 2m lift for someone who made the previous seasons final.Those that finished behind him last season had no chance of turning the table this season.
As to mention the time being so slow to enabling Clay a better chance all times for 400m races on the program were much slower this year because of the wind.Perhaps you are thinking that a runner around the 50 mark should still be able to run that on a windy day because thats what you are really saying.
And its because of the narrow mindess of people like you and the lack of athletes supporting other 400m events that the SAAL are left with only 2 x Open 400m races in the season.
Sponsors wont supply money for a handful of athletes to run around.

36 Re: Camden Handicaps on Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:19 pm

Grim_Reaper


"Clay gives the race integrity & credibility. And his win does more for the race than any other athlete winning would have done. The rest of the athletics world sits up & takes notice of the Camden Classic. It gets a profile across the land it wouldn't have if a regular SAAL athlete runs in the event".[/color]

ahh the truth comes out as why Clay got the 2m lift over others. Seems like they don't won't just the average runner winning it, otherwise no one will take notice.......

37 Re: Camden Handicaps on Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:24 pm

youngy

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Hahaha Narrow minded.....I'm anything but, because I see Camden as a national event & Clay Watkins winning only enhances the status of the race, whereas you seem to think Clay winning off the back of a 2m lift is somehow ruining SA 400m.....but whatever.


I Still reckon there's more than just a few athletes in Adelaide quite capable of breaking 48.4 off their marks. And I will preface my next comment with the fact I have little interest in taking on any new athletes, but I reckon a few should start looking at themselves & consider looking for a coach that may assist them to improve off their current mark. Eg: Duncan Tippins had a PB of 48.20s at the age of 29 & had made Camden finals off a lot more than nine - the mark he finally won off at the age of 33. He retired with a PB of 46.62. Duncan is not a 'freak' either. 


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38 Re: Camden Handicaps on Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:35 pm

youngy

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Nice long bow you've drawn there Grim Reaper. But that's the truth with all Classic Races. If you think a string runners off 35m to 40m winning year in year out is going to sustain the race as a true Classic on the national scene, you have rocks in your head. 

It's the mixture of wins from the likes of Matt Hargreaves, Duncan Tippins & Clay Watkins with the good middle markers & Frontmarkers which make the race such a great spectacle. 

Notwithstanding the result, I was actually hoping Shane Ezard would win because he epitomises a lot of the qualities required to win a Classic. Same with Rob Spencer last year. 

I'm certainly not suggesting that the race become a backmarkers event only, and it's history shows it definitely isn't. But for any major race to maintain some integrity & credibility as a Classic, it needs the class of athletes like Matt, Duncan & Clay to win it every now & then.

PS: Clay was only lifted from 4m to 6m, a mark that prior to yesterday, had never been won from. The stats suggest it is a lot easier to win off 40m than it is to win off 6m. Theres no need to panic. Sleep


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39 Re: Camden Handicaps on Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:21 pm

Whispers


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I would like to think there was no conflict of interest which Im sure there isnt , but three of the 4 handicappers were pretty excited with Clays win.
Handicappers hold a position of integrity and I would like think they would all act a little bit more professionally next time.

40 Re: Camden Handicaps on Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:04 pm

Grim_Reaper


I'm all for the backmarkers coming from behind and winner races, some of the best races I have seen has been when the runner in red wins. It just seems like in order to sell newspapers this year, lifts were given to backmarkers, interstate runners and past winners……

41 Re: Camden Handicaps on Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:51 am

youngy

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Whispers wrote:I would like to think there was no conflict of interest which Im sure there isnt , but three of the 4 handicappers were pretty excited with Clays win.
Handicappers hold a position of integrity and I would like think they would all act a little bit more professionally next time.



Whispers, you say some pretty stupid if not insulting things at times, and you can be quite insightful other times....But this is close to the top of the "stupid & insulting" list . I assume I'm in that 'three' and Gary Zeuner is probably the odd man out.....and if so, that is just plain wrong & insulting. I could not have been more subdued after the Camden Classic. I filmed the race then stayed in the middle of the ground sitting on a chair checking results, updating the result on twitter, and kept away from the winner and those around him. I did film some of the presentation (as I did for the Bay Sheffield) but was back to my seat shortly after and did not leave there. After the presentation, Clay Watkins walked the 50m to where I was sitting to thank me for my role in his career. That would have been at least 10 minutes after the race.

I was more excited by some of the junior races.

And while I wasn't actually watching Leon Burckhardt, in terms of results, I could not think of a more unemotional person than Leon Burckhardt. Leon never gets caught up in the hype. Again, to say he was excited by the result is pretty ordinary. I would say his reaction would  have been no different to that of Jakeman winning the Bay.

Sometimes I enjoy your banter & commentary...and sometimes you can be just a mischievous smart arse.  


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42 Re: Camden Handicaps on Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:22 am

Spiderman

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Sorry Whispers, I have to agree with Youngy. In past years Watkins wouldn't have won off 6m. The quality of 400m running is down in this state. The real question people should be asking is why did Stensons' coach make him run an 800m the day before? Stupid coaching if you ask me! He should be packing his bags right now and getting out of there. Totally unacceptable! Maybe he beats Watkins if he doesn't run the 800 the day before

43 Re: Camden Handicaps on Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:32 am

S.hill


I have to agree with Spider-Man on the point that I think Stenson would have won if he didn't run Saturday night.
Stenson clearly comes from an anti pro stable
Which is fine some people choose to only run Amos
That's up to them
However surely Stenson running a 1.52 800m the night before which he won by 10 seconds is not beneficial in comparison to the $3000 he could have picked up.



Last edited by S.hill on Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:01 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Clear up my point)

44 Re: Camden Handicaps on Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:01 am

Whispers


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Spiderman wrote:Sorry Whispers, I have to agree with Youngy. In past years Watkins wouldn't have won off 6m. The quality of 400m running is down in this state. The real question people should be asking is why did Stensons' coach make him run an 800m the day before? Stupid coaching if you ask me! He should be packing his bags right now and getting out of there. Totally unacceptable! Maybe he beats Watkins if he doesn't run the 800 the day before

Thanks Spiderman for saying that 400m running is at its lowest ebb in this State for many a time WHICH is WHY I cant understand the 2m lift for Clay.Why would you give the best runner in the State a 2m lift when 400m running is at its worst.Like Grim Reaper said , the RED winning makes for a better write up.
And Youngy dont knock blokes winning off 30 to 40 , Im sure you value your Stawell Gift win off your mark.
As for Stenson running the 8oom the night before ,it was no ordinary 800m.From what I am told it was a run against the clock in windy conditions with a pacemaker who pulled out at the 400m mark.I was actually told Sun that he couldnt possibly run after the race he ran Sat evening yet he turned up and ran a blinder.The way he was handled over the weekend is why the state of SA have few athletes that make it.
Stensons certainly the hottest we have had for some time but just in the wrong hands.

45 Re: Camden Handicaps on Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:43 am

racingmania


I don't think we can knock a guy who chooses to run an 800 the nigth before Camden. It's an individual's choice and depends on his priorities. His priorities might be different to yours and mine. It doesn't make Dylan's choice wrong. Methinks tactically he was beaten not from running the 8.

whispers, Youngy hasn't knocked runners winning off 30 to 40. He says the mix of winners is what makes Camden. Sounds to me like you prefer guys winning off 40 and begrudge a guy winning off 6.

46 Re: Camden Handicaps on Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:32 am

youngy

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I've deleted your comment. Whispers, as far as I'm concerned its a non issue & I believe a few sooks have gone to town on me on another form of social media. That's OK, I get whacked far more than your mate does. But I don't allow it worry me & I'm not complaining.

A sense of humour wouldn't go astray. It was not meant to offend.

I believe he's had his say on Twitter & facebook, so Protrack will not be used as another (3rd) platform to bag me. So talk about something else.

Btw, when a few of these sooks are prepared to contribute just 10% of what I do for the sport, I might take notice. 

Btw Whispers after you questioned my integrity, I didn't jump on facebook & Twitter & carry on about it for the next 5 days. I gave you a whack back on the appropriate forum & moved on. I don't hold a grudge over it. 


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47 Re: Camden Handicaps on Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:52 pm

Chinese_Whispers


Stenson in the wrong hands? Mismanaged?

Or perhaps his priorities are much higher than a local SAAL meet hosted by Camden Athletics Club. Judy Daly does an exceptional job of managing her athletes.

Stenson has just run the 3rd fastest 800m by a South Australian ever.

1:47.73

Yes folks, for those of you who are completely oblivious to what Amateur Athletics is...that's off scratch affraid

48 Re: Camden Handicaps on Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:22 pm

Colin Rowston


Great to hear Dylan Stenson ran such a quick time to back up his excellent form last weekend.

It's interesting to note that Duncan Tippins ran a 400m at an Amateur meet in Queensland the day before he won the 2008 Camden Classic, so maybe it doesn't do too much harm to run two days in a row.

Dylan was very unlucky not to win the Camden Classic last weekend, not because he ran the day before but because he appeared to leave his run too late in the race. He was coming home hard and if the race was a couple more metres long, he probably would have overtaken Clay.

49 Re: Camden Handicaps on Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:16 am

racingmania


Exactly Colin. Stenson did not do enough early. He would have won had he gone harder in the first 200.

Chinese Whispers, I have no idea who you are but my guess is you are at best, an OK club athlete who gets his arse kicked in the SAAL without a decent mark. So spare us the elitist attitude mate. 
Most genuine class athletes don't need to carry on like a pork chop about running off scratch. Like Stenson & Watkins they let their running do the talking. 

SAAL does a great job providing the tough competition that guys like Stenson often can't get at ASA. Plus prize money to fund his trips.

50 Re: Camden Handicaps on Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:29 pm

youngy

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Freedom of speech.......amazing how a contributor feels his freedom of speech has been violated because I ask him to confine a certain issue to the form of social media where it originated. But the same contributor, under the guise of an alias, is happy to impugn the integrity of the SAAL's handicappers.

Well here is it how it works Whispers, if you are willing to post the same comment under your real name I will happily allow the post. 

Protesting about Freedom of Speech is a nonsense when you cast aspersions under an assumed name. 


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