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PROTRACK » GENERAL » Freight Bar & Restaurant Ballarat Gift draft timetable

Freight Bar & Restaurant Ballarat Gift draft timetable

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floater


BALLARAT GIFT

2015 Draft TIMETABLE OF EVENTS

SATURDAY FEBRUARY 7TH

TIME       EVENT
                                                                               
11:30am McDonalds - Ballarat Grammar - The Adgroup - City of Ballarat Victorian Junior Dash for Cash REGISTRATION

12:15pm McDonalds - Ballarat Grammar - The Adgroup - City of Ballarat Victorian Junior Dash for Cash 100m, 800m & 200m heats

2:30pm 800m Under 20 VRTA Junior Race Final

2:45pm 70m Under 20 Ballarat Athletic Club Junior Race Heats

3:10pm 70m MESH & MASONRY Open Sprint Handicap Heats

4:05pm 800m 'Gil Hills Memorial ' - Tanya Daniels The Good Guys - Cressbells Dry Cleaners -  Open Handicap Heats

4:30pm McDonalds - Ballarat Grammar - The Adgroup - City of Ballarat Victorian Junior Dash for Cash 400m Heats

5:25pm 70m Under 20 Ballarat Athletic Club Junior Race Final

5:30pm 70m MESH & MASONRY Open Sprint Handicap Semi Finals

5:50pm 120m MARS WOMEN'S GIFT Heats

6:20pm 120m FREIGHT BAR & RESTAURANT BALLARAT GIFT Heats

7:10pm 300m 3BA/Power FM Master's Handicap Heats

7:35pm 120m 'Hec Wilson Memorial' Ballarat Grammar-Templar BearingsRestricted Gift Heats

8:00pm 3200m Wholistic Health Consultancy Open Handicap Final

8:15pm 400m Sportz Biz Restricted Handicap Heats

8:40pm 70m MESH & MASONRY Open Sprint Handicap Final

8:50pm 300m 3BA/Power FM Master's Handicap Final

9:00pm 400m Sportz Biz Restricted Handicap Final

SUNDAY FEBRUARY 8TH

TIME     EVENT

9:30am McDonalds - Ballarat Grammar - The Adgroup - City of Ballarat Victorian Junior Dash for Cash 100m SEMI FINALS (8 races) Semi Finals

10:30am McDonalds - Ballarat Grammar - The Adgroup - City of Ballarat Victorian Junior Dash for Cash 800m Finals (2 races)

11:00am 800m 'Gil Hills Memorial' - Tanya Daniels The Good Guys - Cressbells Drycleaners - Open Handicap Final

11:20am OFFICIAL WELCOME

11:40pm 120m MARS WOMEN'S GIFT Semi Finals

12:00pm 120m FREIGHT BAR & RESTAURANT BALLARAT GIFT Semi Finals

12:20pm McDonalds - Ballarat Grammar - The Adgroup - City of Ballarat Victorian Junior Dash for Cash 200m (1 race) and 400m (2 races) Finals

12:40pm 120m City of Ballarat Master's Handicap Heats

1:00pm 1600m City of Ballarat Womens/Masters Handicap Final

1:15pm 120m 'Hec Wilson Memorial' Ballarat Grammar-Templar Bearings Restricted Gift Final

1:25pm 120m City of Ballarat Master's Handicap Final

1:35pm 400m North Ballarat Sports Club Frontmarkers Handicap Heats

2:00pm 400m 'Val Stewart Memorial' PPT Accounting Backmarkers Handicap Heats

2:20pm McDonalds - Ballarat Grammar - The Adgroup - City of Ballarat Victorian Junior Dash for Cash 100m Finals (4 races) Finals

2:45pm 1600m MARS Open Handicap Final

2.55pm 1500m Ballarat Regional Athletics Centre Final

3:05pm 400m North Ballarat Sports Club Frontmarkers Handicap Final

3:10pm 400m 'Val Stewart Memorial' PPT Accounting Backmarkers Handicap Final

3:25pm 120m MARS WOMEN'S GIFT Final

3:30pm Presentation MARS WOMEN'S GIFT

3:35pm 120m FREIGHT BAR & RESTAURANT BALLARAT GIFT Final

3:40pm Presentation FREIGHT BAR & RESTAURANT BALLARAT GIFT

3.45pm 4x 200m Womens Stable Relay sponsored by Doherty and Clark Final

3.50pm 4x 200m Stable Relay sponsored by Doherty and Clark Final



Last edited by floater on Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:23 am; edited 5 times in total (Reason for editing : Additional sponsor)

Graeme Lebroy


Floater

Got rid off fronties and backies 800's? I guess due to lack of entries/financial constraints? Shame because last years backies 800 was one of the races of the season mainly due to the proximity of the start marks. hope the 400 doesn't end up going the same way.

Any thought given to shifting the 800 final to Saturday evening if there is only one race? To me the Saturday night could do with a bit more oomph....

Double Jeopardy


ProTrack A Grader
ProTrack A Grader
I'm interested in the philosophy of reducing the prizemoney in the 3200m to $500 while the Womens / Masters 1600m is now worth $1000 (same as the Open 1600m).

Last year the Ballarat 3200m attracted one of Australia's best middle distances runners. Hard to see that happening this year.

I understanding the constraints around attracting sponsors but this seems to be an issue with the distribution of money rather than the total amount.

DizzyRunner


ProTrack Star
ProTrack Star
...and the long slow death of the 3200m continues.

Can any vets out there share some nostalgic memories from the golden years of 3200ms when masses took to the start lines?

oldman


ProTrack A Grader
ProTrack A Grader
Why not combine the two events (3200m and women / vets 1600m), increase the limit in the 3200m (dont know what it is now? maybe 400m? up to 600m / even 800m if a backmarker like Rowe enters again.

Most women's / vets miles are run off scratch from memory so not as much of a perceived difference in distance as one would think?

May act in the favour of the vets? Many may like a few more laps to warm up the old muscles!!!!.....

The crowd would love to see Rowe attempt to lap frontmarkers two times in a 8 lap race.

Double Jeopardy


ProTrack A Grader
ProTrack A Grader
Oldman, you've lost your marbles!

jknott123


IN THE 70'S AND 80'S Bendigo had front markers and backmarkers and Stawell had frontmarkers middle markers and backmarkers

ProTrackRunner


I think things have evolved a fair amount since then, the junior events are a lot more prominent in pro running now with Under 20's and Restricted events also having a larger presence.

The Marks are also very inflated at the moment and the majority of runners expecially in the 120s are sitting between 8-12m which would mostly make up a middle marker field.

Backmarker invitational events offer the guys the chance to still pickup good money and have another run if they find themselves not in the mix.

I think the VAL is actually doing quite a good job considering they are mostly Volunteers and have so many events to look after and Handicap.

The only event I would question is the Limit for the 400m Albury Classic ... 60m?

DizzyRunner


ProTrack Star
ProTrack Star
ProtrackRunner makes some excellent points about the great work being done by the VAL especially in terms of promoting and supporting the Junior/U20 races.

Dizzy would also challenge the 60m limit for Albury. Surely this can be extended to include athletes off larger marks. It would be naive and obviously very unfair to presume these frontmakers aren't training and aren't worthy of being able to compete in these kinds of events.

The more inclusive we are, the more entries we get, the better the racing.
Dizzy out.

oldman


ProTrack A Grader
ProTrack A Grader
A 60m limit for a 400m classic - surely that is an error?

No classic 400m should have a limit anymore then 10% of the total distance - similar % apply with the 120m gifts - 12m limit for the classics is about right

Extend that to the mile 1600m - 160m for a classic backmakers mile sounds about right

DizzyRunner


ProTrack Star
ProTrack Star
That's a fairly backwards attitude that belongs back in the day when the sport had a lot more competitors. The sport isn't sustained by the Hales, Bees, Rowes, and Mottrams who turn up occasionally to compete in a Classic with big prize money. It's propped up by every-day people who should not be excluded from the biggest races which only exist cos they put their money into the competition week after week, year after year.

Your arbitrary 10% suggestion implies that someone who wins a Gift off 12.5m or a 1600m off 165m is somehow less worthy. Very presumptive indeed.

oldman


ProTrack A Grader
ProTrack A Grader
I was using the arbitrary 10% as a guide - in comparing the sprints to distance events

The classic gifts have limits around the 10%- yes some may have slightly more as a %

Therefore in making the comparison towards distance events - 400m upwards its a good guide

Trackstar

avatar
Moderator
Moderator
On the contrary Dizzyrunner, it's a very positive step forward offered by Oldman. It should be a 40m limit.
What you are proposing (no limits) would be the most detrimental thing to ever happen. Thankfully there's enough wise heads around to ensure that will never happen. EVERY sport accommodates its elite athletes in some way or form. In the amateurs its the grand prix meets, national titles and international competitions. The battlers run around on a Saturday in the various interclub comps.
In the pro's the best athletes compete for the classic races. It's what ensures they are classic. The limit makes it a classic. Without the limit it's not a classic
The best example is Stawell. The limit ensures the winner still must have well above average sprinting ability. The sponsors wouldn't put the money in if it was open to anyone including 60 year olds running off 40m. That's what fun runs are for. There's still plenty of races around for the battlers.

The Don Furness Classic sprint has a 6m limit to ensure a reasonably good sprinter wins it. The sponsors wouldn't put up the 5 grand if it wasn't a 6m limit. They don't want a 50 year old codger off 14m associated with the name 'Don Furness'.



Last edited by Trackstar on Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

oldman


ProTrack A Grader
ProTrack A Grader
I certainly wasn't saying anyone is more or less worthy purely there needs to be a limit guide

ProTrackRunner


Thanks for the kind words Dizzy however i was actually leaning the other way, seeing 60m limits on a classic 400 isn't great at all.... neither is bendigo being lifted to 45m ... 35-40 places 50-51 second runners in with a real shot at winning these races and there's no shortage of that caliber runner in Victoria.

I really hope it is an error as I'll be one of the guys paying for that entry tonight :/

Mr.X

avatar
It's certainly been the trend with 400's over the last few years - stawell, bendigo and albury all moving out and with backies (with exceptions RE: Stevens/Douglas) not having all that much influence.

400's definitely feel like they are getting 'watered down' in the VAL at the moment - lots of wins from the out-markers and a continuing depletion of back-marker talent as they come to realize it just isn't worth the effort with fewer and fewer chances to compete in quality races or have to navigate fields of 15 when a good event surfaces.

It is an event often ravaged by the 'fat to fit' runners who get regular and inflated lifts over consistent VAL athletes who remain stagnant toward the back of the field. It certainly doesn't look good.

Admin

avatar
Admin
Admin
Greg Whitecross has posted a video of the Ballarat news report announcing Jack Hale running in the Ballarat Gift to his facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/Floaterman?ref=ts&fref=ts

http://protrack.easyforumlive.com

jknott123


93 entries in the 400m at rye 47 from scr-30m and 46 from 31m-93m why not try a backmarkers and frontmarkers like we used to have i think a few more backmarkers would enter if the limit was 30m?

ProTrackRunner


Great stats on Rye Knotty, Fronties and Backies are successful events at both stawell and Ballarat.... no idea why bendigo and Albury are raising their 400m limits....

Look at the results of Albury and Bendigo last year. The runners 40m and above are loving it with the Exception of Moss spoiling the party at Bendigo with his huge run!

DizzyRunner


ProTrack Star
ProTrack Star
The complaining about guys winning 400s with marks over40m is very tired. Some people forget that there are two variables to being a successful pro-runner.
1. How good is your form?
2. How good is your handicap?

I think there's a 101 Guide to Pro Running with tips out there for anyone who is not happy with their handicap and think they have been short-changed by so-called 'dodgy' front-markers. If you can't find a guide I've got a 4 year old niece who could help explain how this caper works.

Lastly, if you aren't happy that 400m races are not being split into fronties/backies, reach into your pockets and chip-in $500 to finance this split. If you aren't willing to do this, then collect your prizemoney at the end of the meet, thank the sponsors, and go train harder.

jknott123


dizzy runner asks how good is your form and how good is your handicap well the first 5 400's this season were won by guys on 43m out to 60m so there form and handicap must be good
as far as putting in towards the prizemoney most fair dinkum pros only want the "SASH"
think about the guys who have to give big starts every meeting they train as hard as anyone.

SANCHEZ


You have to look at each meeting on it's merits and see the type of runners who are entered and actually want to have a crack at some of the smaller races. At Terang there were only 3 heats, so obviously there weren't many big guns there and the winner off 60m took a race that was within his capabilities of winning. At Northcote the winner won off 46m and the backmarker in the final was 26m (only a 20m spread). At Ararat the winner was off 57m and the backmarker 27m. At Maryborough the inform winner won off 49m and there were two runners off 20m in the final. At Daylesford the winner was off 43m and the backie was off 22m (once again a 20m spread). At Rye the winner was off 6m and is obviously a huge talent. We haven't got a lot of in-form backies going around, especially wanting to win the early season races, and before Stevens won Rye the only runner to make a final from behind 19m was Matt Hargraves off 8m at Terang.

ProTrackRunner


Sanchez has my vote for post of the year on Protrack.

Well worded, well researched and very fair.


Watered down is almost an understatement.. and if you ask any of the usual suspects from the 400s of last season they will tell you quite honestly why they aren't running them this season.

When you see guys like Moss, Procca, fabris, Nic Cross and the like now running in 70's and 120s more than 400s you know something has changed.


Mr.X

avatar
ProTrackRunner wrote:Sanchez has my vote for post of the year on Protrack.


When you see guys like Moss, Procca, fabris, Nic Cross and the like now running in 70's and 120s more than 400s you know something has changed.



It's just a smaller sample than the gifts really ProTrackRunner. The regular finalists at say a Maryborough, Stawell, Stonnington over a gift etc probably wont turn out to run gifts at Terang or Warrnambool or places like that - there are simply few quality (even fewer now) 400s on the program so those runners are probably going to spend their time doing other things than watching fronties cop 4m lifts all the time whilst they sit on their same marks or get their 1m lift every few races.

The balance is out and the backies are currently being expected to improve at a significantly higher rate than many fronties - some of whom reap the benefits of the old 'i'll come in unfit and move out 20m in a year' method of handicap acquisition.

Simply it makes little sense to keep going around the circle currently or to show any ability in your first season, all power to those who keep fighting the fight though but the odds are certainly stacked against you if you are back in the field.

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