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PROTRACK » GENERAL » handicaps for bendigo

handicaps for bendigo

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1 handicaps for bendigo on Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:08 pm

marcusjarnold


how good is 18 year old lee forrest ? he is back on 3 after 2 wins from the novice mark of 7 a bigger pull than the stawell gift winner of last year



Last edited by marcusjarnold on Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:09 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : miss spelt word)

2 Re: handicaps for bendigo on Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:04 pm

whistleblower


Marcus. Lee is another victim this season of the chief puppeteer of the VAL telling the handicapper how to handicap. Behind the scenes self interest is ruining this wonderful sport.

3 Re: handicaps for bendigo on Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:39 pm

SANCHEZ


What rubbish. The minimum he can come back according to the penalty tables is 3.5m Plus there is discretion for multiple wins. The kid's won about $18000+ prizemoney for the year

4 Re: handicaps for bendigo on Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:24 pm

marcusjarnold


the major point is that he has been pulled more than if he had won stawell.
Incidentallly he could not win his heat off stawell last year off 7 ,he ran a distant 3rd all we ask for is a fair go

5 Re: handicaps for bendigo on Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:55 pm

Bigsteps


Marcus, one does wonder if you should be questioning this as my question would be ....How does an athlete who runs his one and only 120m gift at the age of 15 and doesn't run another for close to 3-4years can still have his original 7m handicap when the novice mark has been reduced to 6m......I would say Lee has been very lucky not to have had his original handicap from when he was 15years old reviewed as per the guidelines.........many athletes support the VAL for years without even making a gift final........Sorry no tissues from me, two 2m pulls correct for two $15000 race wins.

6 Re: handicaps for bendigo on Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:11 pm

Turkey243


Will Lee's focus this week be on the 120m? Sorry if this is a little off-topic, but given Lee's success over the 120m distance this season, I imagine he'll be in with a better chance than most in the Black Opal given his mark/good form.

7 Re: handicaps for bendigo on Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:32 pm

Phantom

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Marcus, you can't be serious! He has won two of the biggest races this season, almost $20k in prizemoney and you ask for a fair go??? I think you have had a fair go already, you pick the races you win and wear the penalty that goes with it. If the kid is running better than you expected and you now regret not waiting for Stawell, that's your cross to bear, don't blame it on the handicapper.

8 Re: handicaps for bendigo on Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:16 pm

Trackstar

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Don't think Marcus has a very good argument re Lee Forrest.
But Marcus has a point about the Stawell Gift winner. At Bendigo in 2013, Andrew Robinson had 5.25m. One year and a Stawell Gift win later, Robinson has 3.25. He has to be the first Stawell Gift winner in history to be only 2 metres back from his previous Bendigo mark after winning Stawell.
Robinson is better handicapped than some finalists and placegetters. Does seem very generous when most Stawell winners carry a penalty around 3.5 for at least 12 months.

9 Re: handicaps for bendigo on Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:36 pm

oldman


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Yeap two young lads this year may grow old and wonder what could have been, both could have spent the season training in isolation until unleashing, of course only 1 can win the big dance, but they are both the most exciting young talent in the VAL for many a year..

10 Re: handicaps for bendigo on Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:05 am

Bigsteps


Oldman this is true, but after looking back one may assume this may be exactly what Marcus and Lee did for Stawell last year and conclude they isolated and tried to unleash one season to early.....

11 Re: handicaps for bendigo on Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:06 am

WhataboutmeMrHandicapper


Not sure about that oldman.
Luke Stevens was exposed very early in the season, for every1 to see.
Can you imagine the pressure that would have been on him now, if JH held him back? The stewards and handicappers had him in their black book from day one. Don't think JH had much choice but to let the kid run. Once you're in the gun, pro running becomes a minefield.
Stawell Gift history is full of athletes who waited and ended up with nothing. Adam Burbidge was crucified by the handicappers and ended up never winning a Gift. Already Stevens has won more races by the time he turns 20 than Burba did for his whole career.

12 Re: handicaps for bendigo on Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:57 am

oldman


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Oh yeah that makes three young lads thanks Whataboutmemrhandicapper for reminding me of young 'inside evens' I was referring to the Northcote / ballarat gift winner initially but what a sensational year 'inside evens' has had.

13 Re: handicaps for bendigo on Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:06 pm

WhataboutmeMrHandicapper


Oldman when you were referring to two young athletes I thought it was definitely "Fleetness" Forrest & "Inside Evens" Stevens.
I forgot about "Nimbly" Nathan Riali. Isn't he a bit older than the other two?

How long has it been since we've seen the rise of three exciting classy young sprinters in the one pro season like these?

14 handicaps on Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:55 pm

marcusjarnold


at least we are talking about some anomallies that have existed in pro running for decades.
To survive maybe, the whole concept (handicap system ) should be reviewed.

15 Re: handicaps for bendigo on Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:09 am

Guest

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Stawell heat 3  results 
 
weaver 1st  12.18  8.75 m new season mark 6metre

Camille 2nd 12.25 12             ''                    9.25
 
forest   3rd  12.42 8.25                                7.00

forest comes back  1.25 m  weaver and Camille back  2.75

if any one should be complaining it is not forest

16 Re: handicaps for bendigo on Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:49 pm

ToM

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bazzap wrote:Stawell heat 3  results 
 
weaver 1st  12.18  8.75 m new season mark 6metre

Camille 2nd 12.25 12             ''                    9.25
 
forest   3rd  12.42 8.25                                7.00

forest comes back  1.25 m  weaver and Camille back  2.75

if any one should be complaining it is not forest

If that's last year's results, they would all have been forward the 2m Asafa lift, iirc, Bazza.

17 Re: handicaps for bendigo on Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:19 pm

Bigsteps


That's correct ToM, but please then explain how Forrest starts this season off 7m and not 2m back from 8.25 which should have seen him run Maryborough off 6.25.........not 7m, no argument from Marcus about this I bet

18 Re: handicaps for bendigo on Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:42 pm

ToM

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Not a clue. Perhaps as a young, OGA athlete, he didn't receive the full Asafa lift?

19 Re: handicaps for bendigo on Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:45 pm

Guest

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tom you are showing your lack of knowledge pertaining mr forrest

I think his first start was at burramine in 70 metre  ransecond in final

not entered in gift 

next run Stawell  8.25 metres  full 2 metre powell?????? lift plus  .25

next start vic 7  metre 1metre more than novice mark  he has done very well thank

my point was that weaver was penalised for winning heat only at Stawell  iirc''sic''



Last edited by bazzap on Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:46 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)

20 Re: handicaps for bendigo on Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:26 pm

ToM

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Didn't claim to know anything; was only speculating.

21 Re: handicaps for bendigo on Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:53 am

Mick The Rex

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Bazzup, if you look a little deeper into Forrest, you'll realise that the novice mark when started with the VAL was indeed 7m, so in actual fact he only got 1.25m lift for Stawell last year and then come back to his correct handicap at the beginning of this season.

Forrest impressed from the first time he run with the VAL winning 70m at Epping first up, he then went missing for a season or 2 and possibly even longer due to a motorbike accident and injuries sustained in that accident.

It great to see a promising young athlete get back to the track as he has and performs so well, the treatment of Forrest in relation to handicaps has been fair and equiptible for all parties concerned.

Bazzup, hope that clears up any confusion!

Marcus, you should be happy with Lee's victories, I feel your comments and direction devalue what Lee has achieved!

22 Re: handicaps for bendigo on Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:24 pm

leeforrest


It's interesting reading through all these posts, I thought I might pop on to clarify things from our perspective.

Marcus and I have looked into the VAL rules and do see that my re handicap is within the handicapping guidelines, but we felt it unfair that discretion was used when I've only run 3 gifts. 4m is a very long way, and while I'm incredibly stoked to have had my 2 wins (and will be no matter what), it just seems such a long way to start back at only 18. That being said, we understand it's just the way it is and I'm still very much looking forward to the next events.

Also, the reason I had such a large gap of non competition was, as Mick The Rex mentioned, was due to a motorcycle accident where I received 3rd degree burns and required skin grafting. I wonder if perhaps anyone remembers a kid spectating the Albury Gift in 2012 with a temporary leave from the hospital and a leg mummified - that was me  Wink. Perhaps the extra handicap was issued due to the change of the novice mark, I don't know the details, but whatever the reasons there is no changing it and my coach and I are just looking forward from now.

Thanks for reading, I appreciate the comments Mick and others.

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