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PROTRACK » GENERAL » VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013

VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013

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1 VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Tue May 21, 2013 12:53 pm

ShaneMcK


Moderator
Moderator
Hi All,

I am gathering some information from Trainers and Athletes in respect to the Meadowglen Gift for 2013. We will again start the VAL Season for 2013, but before we go too deep into our planning, I'd like to know people's thoughts on what we could do better to make our meeting more attractive, smoother and with greater appeal to attract numbers.

We opted for a later start last season, 18th November which seemed to work. Numbers were healthy, but not like they were back in 2009.

Event200720082009201020112012
70778476674981
200716561575276
200W0030221724
400W25270000
400N183726261930
300V464544383529
550515053443643
1600W900000
1600N0170000
1600W/V0028241920
32000026241618
Total297325344299243321

  • Do you want to see an underage event such as an U20/U17 70m?



  • Should we drop the 3200m and replace it with a 1600m Open?


  • Do we add in an 800m underage event as a trial to test the waters for different age groups and events?


  • Should we add a novice short sprint?


  • Do you want to see the limits increased or decreased for any event?


  • Do we keep the stable 4x200m relay? If so, should it again include a female athlete, should it be 2 male and 2 female?


  • Should we just leave it as it is?


What can we do to help keep this a successful event and provide better competition, greater entries and more support? Please bear in mind, the Whittlesea City Council provide the prizemoney in return for using the track. so increases in the $$$ for offer are not for discussion at this point. Also, please be mindful of event timetabling, heat/semi/final draws, recovery times etc. This event is put on by The VRTA, for the Athletes and Trainers, so in essence, it's your (the VRTA member's) event. If you have any ideas or suggestions, please leave your feedback here, or feel free to email the VRTA (info@vrta.org.au) if you want to discuss some points via email instead.

Thanks in advance and have a great winter preparation.

http://www.shanemckenzie.com

2 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Wed May 22, 2013 11:49 am

WhataboutmeMrHandicapper


Here's my views Shane.

•Do you want to see an underage event such as an U20/U17 70m?
Maybe Under 17? Juniors encouragement at first meet important early in season.

•Should we drop the 3200m and replace it with a 1600m Open?
No stick with the 3200. Not enough 2 mile races as it is.

•Do we add in an 800m underage event as a trial to test the waters for different age groups and events?
What age group? U/20 yes. Any younger No.

•Should we add a novice short sprint?
Don't need more races unless for juniors. Program is chockers!

•Do you want to see the limits increased or decreased for any event?
Limits should stay as is. Def not increased.

•Do we keep the stable 4x200m relay? If so, should it again include a female athlete, should it be 2 male and 2 female?
MUST STAY! Great addition. VAL ratio of males to females reflected in 3:1. Let female run in any leg. Strategies by stables to place the female where it suits team.

•Should we just leave it as it is?
Great opening meet. Doesn't need much tinkering.

3 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Wed May 22, 2013 1:07 pm

ShaneMcK


Moderator
Moderator
Thanks for the feedback.

Hopefully more people will follow suit and provide us with some information so we make the meet the best it possibly can be, so everyone benefits.

U17 sprint was the initial idea, a great way to introduce young athletes in a low pressure environment to give them a taste of what it's all about.

And yes, an U20 800m was another thought. Any younger and it would just not float I feel. Be a great opportunity for athletes aged 14 - 19 to have a another event that caters for them.

Also agree on limits, keep them as is, but open to debate.

Also, love the relay, it reinforces the team culture to the sport and provides an opportunity for more athletes to have another race for the day.

Bear in mind, there were only 10 starters in the 3200m at VRTA out of 18 entered. 45% of the field scratched. This is the reason it was brought it up. Don't get me wrong, I love to see the 2 mile events on the card, but if the athletes either don't bother to enter, or even show up, then why put them on in the first place? Could the prize-money be better directed to other events, such as the Women's 200m or the Open 70m or a junior sprint or 800m, which are likely to yield stronger numbers and look to continue to grow? If you were the sponsor of the 3200m, how do you feel about a small entry pool and half of that scratch on the day? Do we change the distance to 2000m? Prize-money increases in the past have not led to greater participation.

I'm just trying to spark up debate to attain the greatest range of opinions and ideas.

We'll take your thoughts to the table.

Cheers

http://www.shanemckenzie.com

4 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:56 pm

ShaneMcK


Moderator
Moderator
Hi All,

As the season is drawing nearer, I wanted to revisit this post.

My ideas thus far are to include an U17 70m & and U20 800m.

Pros and cons;
Cons

  • More sprint events to possibly overload a sprint time slot


  • Less recovery for those that might run both U17 & open 70m


  • Might not be a enough entrants to list numerous heats for a an U20 800m as it's an infant event


  • Might take away entrants from 400m Novice Series & 550m Open


  • Might be tricky to slot it the U20 800m race to with minumal impact to recovery and other possible events clash


  • entrants might not be enough to cover prize money for U20 800m


Pros

  • Attract younger athletes to sprint events where they will be racing more people closer to their own age


  • Schedule to U17 70m to follow the Open to allow more time from heats to semi finals for open 70m athletes, then pad out between U17 70m final and open 70m final


  • Creates a new series of events to invest in younger middle distance athletes for our future


  • Opportunity to heavily market the junior events to the Northern region athletes that compete for AV clubs as well as all around the state


  • Use AV for direct marketing to the younger demographic


Before anything is set in stone, I want to get a clear picture of runners and trainer's thoughts on what I am looking to achieve. This is both from a VRTA/Meadowglen Gift perspective also from a VAL Board level perspective. We need to invest in our future and they are younger athletes becoming involved in our sport and staying in our sport long term.

Please use this forum to share positive ideas, information and feedback, so the VRTA and the VAL can have this feedback presented to them for informed decisions on the direction we all head.

Thanks in advance

http://www.shanemckenzie.com

5 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:01 am

Choice Bro


Shane, a 400m open would be nice.

6 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:09 pm

ToM

avatar
ProTrack Star
ProTrack Star
Choice Bro wrote:Shane, a 400m open would be nice.
400 Open doesn't work well alongside a 550 Open.

7 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:28 pm

jknott123


my thoughts are
70m open
200m open
400m novice
300m women/vets
550m open
1600m wom/vets
1600m open with 240m limit

8 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:33 pm

ShaneMcK


Moderator
Moderator
We will 100% be doing;
70m Open
200m Open
200m Womens
400m Novice
550m Open
3200m Open

There aren't enough 550s or 3200s through the season, so it's the responsible thing to do by putting them on. There is a glut of 400m open and 1600m Open through out the season, so this is why we fill this segment like we do.

I am really keen to also put on an U17 70m and an U20 800m.

Spaced right, the U17 70m can be good padding for the 70m Open semis to Final. It's not likely that there are too many 15 and 16 year old athletes that will be in the 70m open semi final/final. Might only affect one or two people. I suspect there would be a few U17 girls that would run the U17 70m AND the 200m Womens. There should be minimal impact again if the timetable is formatted correctly to give the majority of athletes adequate time.  

The U20 800m should also have very little impact on the 550m Open fields. It might only have a small affect on the 400m Novice if it's timed correctly. It should be scheduled after the 400m Novice heats with enough time for any athletes to recover in time for an U20 800m. Again, aiming to bring in new junior athletes to the ranks. There is a small chance it might affect the 1600m Women's/Vets, if there are U20 girls that would want to do both. With the correct formatting of the timetable, we could reduce impact on this.

As with all events, you can't satisfy 100% of the population 100% of the time, but we will certainly aim for the satisfaction of the majority.

Unless we experiment with a few things, we won't be able to improve on the event. This is the race FOR the athletes put on BY the athletes.

Again, please feel free to comment here or PM/email me directly for discussion.

Cheers

http://www.shanemckenzie.com

9 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:11 pm

Choice Bro


Not having an open 300m or an Open 400m reduces the options for a lot runners.

10 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:11 pm

Choice Bro


Sorry, 'of' runners

11 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:35 pm

K_Moore


Maybe Choice Bro, but a 200m and 550m should theoretically cater for those that run 300s and 400s?

12 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:56 am

jknott123


70m open,200m open,200m womens,400m novice,550m open,u17 70m ,
thats 6 sprint races and a distance race of 3200m that will get a few entries and fewer starters.as for the u20 800m why?
what do the guys that run 1600m at most meetings get to run in? what about the vets that run the 300m at nearly every meeting get to run in.
why the need for a womens 200m a one off for the season.have a womens/vets 300m as normal.not all 400m runners want to run a 200m or a 550m they are two different races.

13 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:33 am

ShaneMcK


Moderator
Moderator
Please refer to the table at the top of the page for entry numbers

Reason for a 3200m and not a 1600m, there aren't many 3200m events for the season, only about 4, same with 550m. There are heaps of 400m events through the season, HEAPS.

The handicappers need some events to assist their assessment of the 2 mile events and the 550m events. Due to the vast quantity of 400 & 1600 for the season, there are plenty of other opportunities.

There will also be a 300m Vets, same as last year.

The sprint events bring in the entries, distance races do not. The milers and 2 milers only have themselves to blame. Since 2009, there are more (or in 1 case, equal) entries for the Women's/Vets mile compared to the open 3200m.

If the distance runners speak up and tell us they DO NOT want the 3200m and DO want a 1600m, then we will listen. If we then only have 30 entries with half the field scratch (like is often the case) then what is the point?

We can not satisfy 100% of the population, 100% of the time, we try to cater to the majority. If the majority do not speak up (like is often the case) then we do what we feel is in the best interest of the event.

1600m events have been declining in numbers in recent years, this is the reason behind the changes in non-penalty events, reduced penalties etc to try to increase participation. Unless numbers increase, why hold those events? Where is the financial incentive? This also brings in the rationale behind U20 800m. In an effort to invest in the youth, these people will grow older and step up to open at some point. This is an investment in the future of the sport. Providing a lower pressure environment of kids to learn and understand the sport and graduate accordingly.

You (distance runners) call for more prize money to boost numbers, but last season that didn't work, entries for the bigger events were down. Why? Unless the distance runners speak up, we are limited in our abilities to cater to your requirements.

Please keep the feedback coming, the debate is important, all points are important to discuss. There is nothing personal in rebuttal, just constructive arguments to make our sport a better place for more people to enjoy.

Thanks

http://www.shanemckenzie.com

14 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:45 am

jknott123


perhaps the decline in distance running is the ridiculous limits of 400m and 600m

15 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:55 am

ShaneMcK


Moderator
Moderator
If limits are a concern, then bring it forward to the VRTA. If there are enough people behind it, then it will hold more weight. But a line has to be drawn at inclusion v ability. Some people just aren't good enough to be competitive unless closer to those limits. I'd have to pull some numbers to see where the majority of athletes run from, but I don't feel the limits are an issue. I could also be wrong. I don't want to see the regular competitors from beyond those marks excluded from the events, they seem to compete more consistently. Again, I'd have to check the stats to be accurate of my assumption.

I'll look through the results of the last few years to determine the spread of marks.

I'll come back with the results, but I need some time to calculate them.

http://www.shanemckenzie.com

16 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:45 am

jknott123


the val are now catering for the women and vets who want to run 1600m by having wom/vets 1600m regularly and thats great it keeps them in the game so by providing them a run with a 400m limit is good but the open 1600m limit should be like it always was 240m the handicapper can always bring the handicaps back.this is my opinion would like to hear somebody else having a say

17 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:18 pm

Choice Bro


Clearly is doesn't Shane. Which is why numbers are down and low. I know a number of runners that avoid this meet because there is simply not enough on the program.

18 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:10 pm

Downesy


I will definitely (as a VRTA committee member, and a distance athlete) be emphasising the importance of entering AND competing in the 2 mile this season at the VRTA meet. With the decline of entries in this event, in addition to the lack of participation of the athletes who have entered, (and I have been guilty of this myself), the distance runners will have no one to blame but themselves if this event gets dropped from future VRTA meets.

19 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:29 pm

ToM

avatar
ProTrack Star
ProTrack Star
I'm in favour of the VRTA advocating to lift the limit on Open 400's out to 200m, and on the mile out to 800m. I feel I might finally be competitive running in both those distance events off the limit, but I can't seem to gather any support for the idea!

20 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:17 am

ShaneMcK


Moderator
Moderator
Hi All,

For any interstate athletes interested, The VRTA Meadowglen Gift will be held on Sunday 17th November 2013 at Meadowglen International Athletic Stadium.

The feature event of the day is the City of Whittlesea 200m Open Gift with a prize pool of $2,500, and a Women's 200m with a prize pool of $900.
Events of the day;
70m Open (limit 14m)
70m Junior U17 (limit 14m)
City of Whittlesea 200m Open Gift (limit 30m)
City of Whittlesea 200m Women's Gift (limit 30m)
300m Veterans (limit 90m)
400m Sportsbiz Novice Series (limit 120m)
550m Open (limit 138m)
800m Junior U20 (limit 240m)
1600m Women's/Veterans (limit 400m)
3200m Open (limit 600m)
Stable Medley Relay (100m, 100m, 200m, 400m) $20 entry per team, with the winning team to take all.

Meadowglen International Athletic Stadium is located on McDonalds Road, Epping. It's about 25 minutes drive from the Tullamarine Airport or a $45 cab fare. Flights on the Saturday from Adelaide to Melbourne are still cheap from $40 (plus extras) and from Sydney, flights are from $35 (plus extras).

It's a fantastic opener to the VAL Season, plenty of opportunity to be seen by the handicapper, have plenty of racing on the day and catch up with old friends.

If you aren't heading to Whyalla (SAAL), or want something between Macksville & Queanbeyan (NSWAL), then pencil this into your diary. The VAL website will be ready in the coming weeks for registration and entry. Entries will close approx 2 weeks before the event (1st November).

So be sure to plan your entries, there are lots of opportunities to compete and we look forward to seeing you all there. The timetable will be posted once entries are confirmed.

*Please note the new limit on the 3200m being 600m, this is to enable greater inclusion, so we hope to see a well supported race.

http://www.shanemckenzie.com

21 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:40 pm

ShaneMcK


Moderator
Moderator
Summary of events, entries etc since 2007














Event2007200820092010201120122013
7077847667498180
20071656157527680
200W003022172434
400W25270000na
400N18372626193047
300V46454438353033
55051505344364347
1600W900000na
1600N0170000na
1600W/V002824192031
3200002624161828
70 U17nananananana20
800 U20nananananana21
Total297325344299243321422
3 entries short of record in the 70m Open
Record number of entries in the 200m Open
Record number of entries in the 200m Womens
Record number of entries in the 400m Sportsbiz Novice
300m Vets numbers are 3 more than lowest we have recorded and 13 short of the highest
550m Open are 6 short of a record entry and 11 more than our lowest entry
Record number of entries for the 1600m W/V
Record number of entries for the 3200m

With the introduction of the 2 new Junior events, there are 41 additional entries. Many of these new entrants have also entered Novice, Combined or Open events to boost the total entries about 80.

All we have to do is get the 550m & 300m Vets events better supported by the athletes and we will go more than 450!

Looking forward to the weekend and what it will yield the VAL and and the VRTA

http://www.shanemckenzie.com

22 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:04 am

Bad Boy Bubby


The question on everyone's lips.

Will JH or ShaneMcK get the marks to us first?

23 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:52 am

Trackstar

avatar
Moderator
Moderator
Friday before the meet and still no handicap lists. Presume the program is being printed with all the names and handicaps.
Why can't the VAL release the marks?

24 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:32 am

vicinsider


Trackstar wrote:Friday before the meet and still no handicap lists. Presume the program is being printed with all the names and handicaps.
Why can't the VAL release the marks?


Mate who cares what the handicaps are, give the VAL & VRTA a break its no doubt been a hectic week for all involved.

Just turn up on sunday buy and program and your handicaps will be shown in there.

If you were running pros 15 years ago before computers what did you do? Jump in the local phone box and ring up the VAL office every day of the week asking if the handicaps were out?

25 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:03 pm

Trackstar

avatar
Moderator
Moderator
Hey Vicinsider
Too bad if someone wants to offer some tips. Can't do that without knowing the marks.
It's a reasonable request 2 days out from a meet.
We are living in 2013 not 1998 you idiot. In future stick your advice up your backside.


26 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:16 pm

jknott123


USE TO GET THE HANDICAPS 3 WEEKS BEFORE A MEET IN THE GOOD OLD DAYS AND THATS WHEN THERE WERE TWICE THE ENTRIES WE GET TODAY

27 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:19 pm

Smoke n Mirrorz


ProTrack Star
ProTrack Star
Smoke just wants to get through the mile without the handicappers pinging Smoke for jogging down the back straight every lap.

Hectic week is correct Vicinsider. The calendar was released this week right? Oh no, it's been out for months. Smoke will be issuing NAPs to the handicappers on Sunday.

Trackstar as for tips, Greg Whitecross - who rumour has it is Brendan Whitecross' Dad - is ya Monty for the mile. Smoke rang JH earlier to back Whitecross, but he wouldn't take the bet.

28 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:30 pm

vicinsider


Trackstar wrote:Hey Vicinsider
Too bad if someone wants to offer some tips. Can't do that without knowing the marks.
It's a reasonable request 2 days out from a meet.
We are living in 2013 not 1998 you idiot. In future stick your advice up your backside.




Offer Tips ha is that a joke?

Who are you offering tips to? Your subscribers to your tipping service, so they can all go along to the vast number of bookmakers running a book on every running event at epping and clean up like the good old days?

29 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:39 pm

oldman


ProTrack A Grader
ProTrack A Grader
vicinsider wrote:
Trackstar wrote:Hey Vicinsider
Too bad if someone wants to offer some tips. Can't do that without knowing the marks.
It's a reasonable request 2 days out from a meet.
We are living in 2013 not 1998 you idiot. In future stick your advice up your backside.


Offer Tips ha is that a joke?

Who are you offering tips to? Your subscribers to your tipping service, so they can all go along to the vast number of bookmakers running a book on every running event at epping and clean up like the good old days?


Settle down you lads, lets not turn this forum into a he said she said carry on.

Lets all just be happy that the Pro running season is back upon us, there will be many weekends full of great racing in some beautiful places of Victoria.

30 Re: VRTA Meadowglen Gift 2013 on Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:45 pm

youngy

avatar
Admin
Admin
This is an observation and not a criticism as such. The VAL chose to leave entries open until 6 days before the meet. This has compounded a huge problem with the handicappers being placed under extraordinary pressure to handicap over 400 entries in the space of a few days. With so many new athletes entered and such a small window to investigate or check every athlete's credentials, the risk of mistakes has increased exponentially.

The publishing, (whether that be on the VAL website or Protrack) of the marks at least gives people a chance to look at them and detect any obvious or significant errors.

We are all aware of the problems the VAL has encountered with the registration system and empathise with them. But, as Smoke'n'Mirrors noted, they have known about these problems for several months. The nomination closing date could still have been adhered to, with athletes registering and entering as per the old fashioned way, either personally or by post. Even emailing an entry with the VAL invoicing the athlete  at a later date. It only needed that information to be disseminated to the members to let them know what they should do.

Shane McKenzie should be commended for the number of posts and the plethora of information he has provided including statistics comparing previous years to 2013. The only problem I have with the comparison is that in past years, athletes didn't have until 6 days befrorre the meet to enter. I wonder how many entries the VRTA meet would have had as at the original closing date. Without knowing how many entries were received over the last week or so, the 2013 figures have been inflated by the significant extension of time for entries until the week of the meet.

Having said that, the numbers are very promising and augur well for the VAL for future meets.


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