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PROTRACK » GENERAL » Stokesy's Preview of the SAAL Over35 Sprints - 300m at Loxton - 2013 the year of the youngsters???

Stokesy's Preview of the SAAL Over35 Sprints - 300m at Loxton - 2013 the year of the youngsters???

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Stokesy

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For the last two years this race has been an oldies affair, with over45 runners making up all the finalists in 2012 and most of the finalists in 2011 including the first two places.

But this year will be a different story.

My pick is Salvador Jurado running off 24m - Salvador ran a close second in the over35s 400m at Hectorville yesterday - he ran a very strong final 100m and maybe he would have won if he had started faster like the winner David Wilczek.

Shane Grimwade 34m, David Miller 32m, Andrew Buttery 32m, Daniel Flesfadar 26m - all are looking good as well.

Shane made the final two years ago off 22m and his recent entries in the 400m event show he has prepared for the longer runs.

David Miller was run out in the heats last year off a mark of 20m - the 12m lift will help him make the final this year.

Geoff Troiano 46m won the 400m at Camden and is maybe a chance - Geoff was run out in last year's heats off 34m.

Nathan Hoare 40m also is maybe a chance - Nathan was run out in last year's heats off 22m - a handy 18m lift will help a lot.

Mark Beveridge 24m seems another good chance.

And back markers David Palmer and Brian Golden might blast through from 8m.

Maybe the oldies have some hope with Gary Thompson off 70m - I have not seen Gary run, but his past personal results and his coaching successes tell me that he is a definite chance in his welcome return to the track.

And never discount the legend Ali Saliu.

Also Cheryl Zeuner 102m must be a chance after scoring a close 5th in last year's dramatic finish off 86m - but the massive 16m lift for Cheryl is matched by Michael Cassidy and Sue Turner and almost matched by a few other oldies.

Sue Turner 78m (6th in the final off 62m last year), Michael Cassidy 47m (31m last year), John Turner 54m (44m last year), Mick Abbott 56m (44m last year) and Ron Axford 80m (66m last year) are all due for a good result and have double digit lifts to help them.

Last year's winner Ray Earle is running off 65m this year, a six metre lift from last year's victory run.

Poor old Stokesy with his sore back has a mark of 50m this year, compared to 48m last year and 55m in 2011. That will teach me to whinge about the handicap system. Not. My considered advice to myself is save the pain and the petrol and stay home - I wonder if I will take my own advice or not - depends maybe on training tomorrow night and on how the BlueCar is running. We will see.

===============================================================================

Last Year's Final 2012
1 Ray Earle Green 59.00m 35.55
2 Alex Jefferies White 42.00m 35.85
3 Lyn Peake Pink 75.00m 36.00
4 Brett Stokes Yellow 48.00m 36.18
5 Cheryl Zeuner 1 86.00m 36.34
6 Sue Turner Black 62.00m 36.50
7 Cameron White Red 36.00m 36.67
8 John Turner Blue 44.00m 36.82

Two Year's Ago Final 2011
1 Brett Stokes 1 55.00m 35.01
2 Cameron White Green 36.00m 35.75
3 Mick Abbott Pink 46.00m 35.92
4 Richard McMahon White 28.00m 36.08
5 Sue Turner 2 66.00m 36.25
6 Mark Donovan Yellow 32.00m 36.41
7 Shane Grimwade Red 22.00m 36.58
8 Steve Butler Black 43.00m 36.73
9 Michael Cassidy Blue 31.00m 36.90

This Year's Entry List and Handicaps

LOXTON IRRIGATION CENTRE 300m Over 35
Name Handicap
Brian Golden 8.00 m
David Palmer 8.00 m
Mark Beveridge 24.00 m
Salvador Jurado 24.00 m
Daniel Flesfadar 26.00 m
Andrew Buttery 32.00 m
David Miller 32.00 m
Ali Saliu 32.00 m
Shane Grimwade 34.00 m
Nathan Hoare 40.00 m
Richard McMahon 40.00 m
Christopher Brown 41.00 m
Rafal Staporski 42.00 m
Peter Brennan 46.00 m
George Diakomichalis 46.00 m
Greg Franks 46.00 m
Brendan Golden 46.00 m
Geoff Troiano 46.00 m
Michael Cassidy 47.00 m
Graham Harris 48.00 m
Brett Stokes 50.00 m
Daniel Tregenza 50.00 m
John Turner 54.00 m
Mick Abbott 56.00 m
Mark Barnett 56.00 m
Eugene DeVizio 64.00 m
Ray Earle 65.00 m
Jackie Chehade 66.00 m
Mark Howson 68.00 m
Darcy Cheney 70.00 m
Trudy Schrapel 70.00 m
Gary Thompson 70.00 m
Ian Reddaway 78.00 m
Sue Turner 78.00 m
Ron Axford 80.00 m
Debbie DeVizio 96.00 m
Cheryl Zeuner 102.00 m


=====================================
Last Year's Heats and Final
NIPPYS LOXTON GIFT CARNIVAL - Feb 25th 2012

Event 155 - 300m Over 35 - Heat: 1
Position Name Colour Mark Time
1 Ray Earle 1 59.00m 35.37
2 Brett Stokes Pink 48.00m 35.85
3 Mick Abbott Black 44.00m 36.20
4 Christopher Brown Green 31.00m 36.53
5 Debbie DeVizio 3 82.00m 36.74
6 Andrew Wright White 22.00m 37.05
7 Brendan Golden Blue 30.00m 38.08
8 Aaron Harrison Red 20.00m 38.25
- Mark Donovan Yellow 35.00m Scr
- Ian Reddaway 2 65.00m Scr

Event 155 - 300m Over 35 - Heat: 2
Position Name Colour Mark Time
1 Alex Jefferies Green 42.00m 35.77
2 Sue Turner 1 62.00m 36.47
3 Nando Princi Black 47.00m 37.09
4 Geoff Troiano Yellow 34.00m 37.42
5 Nathan Hoare White 22.00m 38.00
6 Gail Stone Pink 58.00m 39.52
- Ali Saliu Red 18.00m Scr
- Robert Samarcq Blue 30.00m Scr
- Kathryn Blute 2 82.00m Scr

Event 155 - 300m Over 35 - Heat: 3
Position Name Colour Mark Time
1 Lyn Peake 2 75.00m 35.81
2 John Turner Black 44.00m 36.63
3 David Miller White 20.00m 37.42
4 Grant Oates Blue 30.00m 38.16
5 Daniel Tregenza Yellow 30.00m 40.85
- Mark Beveridge Red 14.00m Scr
- Chris Dimitrak Green 40.00m Scr
- Gary Ferber Pink 57.00m Scr
- Mark Howson 1 62.00m Scr

Event 155 - 300m Over 35 - Heat: 4
Position Name Colour Mark Time
1 Cheryl Zeuner 3 86.00m 35.90
2 Cameron White Green 36.00m 36.29
3 Eugene DeVizio Pink 56.00m 36.45
4 Ron Axford 2 66.00m 36.62
5 David Smith Red 8.00m 37.92
- Mark Hipworth White 20.00m Scr
- Richard McMahon Blue 28.00m Scr
- Michael Cassidy Yellow 31.00m DNF
- Mark Barnett Black 44.00m Scr
- Darcy Cheney 1 60.00m Scr

Event 155 - 300m Over 35 - Final:
Position Name Colour Mark Time
1 Ray Earle Green 59.00m 35.55
2 Alex Jefferies White 42.00m 35.85
3 Lyn Peake Pink 75.00m 36.00
4 Brett Stokes Yellow 48.00m 36.18
5 Cheryl Zeuner 1 86.00m 36.34
6 Sue Turner Black 62.00m 36.50
7 Cameron White Red 36.00m 36.67
8 John Turner Blue 44.00m 36.82

2 *** Correction to Stokesy's mark **** on Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:13 pm

Stokesy

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From: Leon
To: brett
Sent: Monday, 18 February 2013 9:02 PM
Subject: Loxton

Hi Brett

Saw your post on Protrack, I don’t normally contact athletes directly but as the office isn’t open until Thursday I thought I’d shoot you an email.

You will be running off 60m at Loxton in the 300m.

The 300m fields were lifted 10m to accommodate Duncan Tippins running at Whyalla and Marion. There were a couple of you who didn’t run in either so your last mark showed a lesser mark, and yours was one I missed.

Duncan isn’t running but I left the marks were they were for Loxton.

Sorry for the confusion

Leon

Leon Burckhardt



Last edited by Stokesy on Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:14 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : remove email addresses)

Whispers


ProTrack Star
ProTrack Star
The young lad on 80 is going to take some catching.

4 what actually happened on Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:03 am

Stokesy

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Whispers was almost right, and I was almost completely wrong.

Cheryl Zeuner made the most of her massive 102m mark to win, closely followed by Ron Axford off 80m (Whispers' prediction for first place).

Despite my prediction that the youngsters would dominate this year, the only backmarker in the final was David Miller (off 32m) who had a clear run and then sped through most of the home straight traffic.

Also in the final were Sue Turner 78m, John Turner 54m, Trudy Schrapel 70m, Eugene DeVizio 64m and (in last place) Brett Stokes 60m.

For me, it was a night of saying thank you for the lift - to 0ver35er for the lift most of the way and back - to handicapper Leon for giving me the 10m lift to 60m from the 50m in the printed program.

Leon's response was interesting to me - along the lines of "Just giving you what everyone else got" ... but as per my post above, compared to 12 months ago, I got a 12m lift while others got a few extra metres - and surprise surprise (not) those extra metres led to good results for many of those people, including three of the finalists.

How does the SAAL sprint events handicapping system work?

It is a mystery to me and it is an ongoing disappointment to me (and maybe to many others?).

5 Some more recent history on Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:31 am

Stokesy

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over35s and over45s 300m races since Loxton last year ...

Marion Gift Carnival
Friday 25th January 2012
300m O/35's FINAL
1 Sue Turner (80) 33.82
2 Eugene DeVizio (64) 34.11
3 David Miller (32) 34.30
4 John Turner (54) 34.47

Whyalla Gift Carnival
Saturday 17th November 2012
300m O/35's FINAL
1 Eugene DeVizio (68)
2 Sue Turner (80)
3 John Turner (54)
4 Ali Saliu (30)
5 Cheryl Zeuner (98)
6 Mark Beveridge (24)
7 Alex Jefferies (46)
8 Mark Howson (66)
Time: 34.83

Henley Gift Carnival
Sunday 4th November 2012
300m O/45's FINAL
1 Alex Jefferies (40) 37.02
2 Ross Hill-Brown (46) 37.36
3 Geoff Troiano (36) 37.36
4 Richard McMahon (28) 37.51
5 Andrew Buttery (22) 37.94
6 Michael Cassidy (31) 38.51
7 John Turner (44) 38.85
8 Ray Earle (55) 39.18

(Eugene DeVizio listed as 56m in the program)
(Sue Turner listed as 66m in the program)
(Cheryl Zeuner listed as 86m in the program)

6 A personal perspective ... on Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:24 pm

Stokesy

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SUMMARY

Cheryl has got faster by 0.4429 m/sec since Loxton 2011 ... mark is plus 16m

Ron has got faster by 0.2727 m/sec since Loxton 2012 ... mark is plus 14m

Sue has got faster by 0.2296 m/sec since Loxton 2011 ... mark is plus 12m
(Sue won 300m at Marion 2013 off 80m and at Henley 2011 off 66m)

David has got faster by 0.5078 m/sec since Loxton 2012 ... mark is plus 12m

Trudy seems to be a newcomer to the SAAL since Loxton 2012.

Eugene has got faster by 0.2717 m/sec since Loxton 2012 ... mark is plus 8m
(Eugene won 300m at Whyalla 2012 off 68m)

John has got faster by 0.5265 m/sec since Loxton 2011 ... mark is plus 10m

I have slowed down by 0.0314 m/sec since Loxton 2011 ... mark is plus 5m
(I won Loxton 2011 off 55m)

==========================================================================
prepared with care - apologies for any errors -
==========================================================================

DETAILS

Stokesy
2011 I won the final off 55.00m - time 35.01 - speed 6.9980 m/sec
2012 I was 4th in the final off 48.00m - time 36.18 - speed 6.9652 m/sec
2013 I was 8th in the final off 60.00m - time 34.45 - speed 6.9666 m/sec
So I have slowed down by 0.0314 m/sec since Loxton 2011 ... mark is plus 5m
(I won Loxton 2011 off 55m)

John Turner
2011 John was run out in the heats off 44.00m - time 38.28 - speed 6.6876 m/sec
2012 John was 8th in the final off 44.00m - time 36.82 - speed 6.9527 m/sec
2013 John was 7th in the final off 54.00m - time 34.10 - speed 7.2141 m/sec
So John has got faster by 0.5265 m/sec since Loxton 2011 ... mark is plus 10m

Eugene DeVizio
2011 not on list of starters
2012 Eugene was run out in the heats off 56.00m - time 36.45 - speed 6.6941 m/sec
2013 Eugene was 6th in the final off 64.00m - time 33.88 - speed 6.9658 m/sec
So Eugene has got faster by 0.2717 m/sec since Loxton 2012 ... mark is plus 8m
(Eugene won 300m at Whyalla 2012 off 68m)

Trudy Schrapel
2011 not on list of starters
2012 not on list of starters
2013 Trudy was 5th in the final off 70.00m - time 33.72 - speed 6.8209 m/sec
Trudy seems to be a newcomer to the SAAL since Loxton 2012.
Seems to be doing exceptionally well.

David Miller
2011 not on list of starters
2012 David was run out in the heats off 20.00m - time 37.42 - speed 7.4826 m/sec
2013 David was 4th in the final off 32.00m - time 33.54 - speed 7.9905 m/sec
So David has got faster by 0.5078 m/sec since Loxton 2012 ... mark is plus 12m

Sue Turner
2011 Sue was 5th in the final off 66.00m - time 36.25 - speed 6.4452 m/sec
2012 Sue was 6th in the final off 62.00m - time 36.50 - speed 6.5205 m/sec
2013 Sue was 3rd in the final off 78.00m - time 33.21 - speed 6.6847 m/sec
So Sue has got faster by 0.2296 m/sec since Loxton 2011 ... mark is plus 12m
(Sue won 300m at Marion 2013 off 80m and at Henley 2011 off 66m)

Ron Axford
2011 not on list of starters
2012 Ron was run out in the heats off 66.00m - time 36.62 - speed 6.3900 m/sec
2013 Ron was 2n in the final off 80.00m - time 33.02 - speed 6.6626 m/sec
So Ron has got faster by 0.2727 m/sec since Loxton 2012 ... mark is plus 14m

Cheryl Zeuner
2011 Cheryl was run out in the heats off 86.00m - time 37.88 - speed 5.6494 m/sec
2012 Cheryl was 5th in the final off 86.00m - time 36.34 - speed 5.8888 m/sec
2013 Cheryl was 1st in the final off 102.00m - time 32.5 - speed 6.0923 m/sec
So Cheryl has got faster by 0.4429 m/sec since Loxton 2011 ... mark is plus 16m

------------------------------------------------------
Full results from last night 23rd Feb 2013 at Loxton

300m Over 35 - Heat 1
1 Sue Turner 78m 33.880
2 Brett Stokes 60m 34.620
3 Christopher Brown 41m 34.990
4 Mark Barnett 56m 35.190
5 Mark Howson 68m 35.340
6 Gary Thompson 70m 35.650
- Mark Beveridge 24m Scr
- Ali Saliu 32m Scr
- Brendan Golden 46m Scr

300m Over 35 - Heat 2
1 Cheryl Zeuner 102m 33.170
2 David Miller 32m 33.840
3 Graham Harris 48m 34.210
4 Andrew Buttery 32m 34.550
5 Ian Reddaway 78m 35.730
6 George Diakomichalis 46m 36.710
- Richard McMahon 40m Scr
- Greg Franks 46m Scr
- Mick Abbott 56m Scr
- Jackie Chehade 66m Scr

300m Over 35 - Heat 3
1 Trudy Schrapel 70m 34.100
2 John Turner 54m 34.410
3 Michael Cassidy 47m 34.630
4 Ray Earle 65m 34.940
5 Debbie DeVizio 96m 35.350
- David Palmer 8m Scr
- Daniel Flesfadar 26m Scr
- Nathan Hoare 40m Scr
- Peter Brennan 46m Scr

300m Over 35 - Heat 4
1 Ron Axford 80m 33.590
2 Eugene DeVizio 64m 33.790
3 Shane Grimwade 34m 34.690
4 Geoff Troiano 46m 35.350
5 Salvador Jurado 24m 35.620
6 Rafal Staporski 42m 36.460
7 Daniel Tregenza 50m 37.420
- Brian Golden 8m Scr
- Darcy Cheney 70m Scr

300m Over 35 - Final
1 Cheryl Zeuner 102m 32.510
2 Ron Axford 80m 33.020
3 Sue Turner 78m 33.210
4 David Miller 32m 33.540
5 Trudy Schrapel 70m 33.720
6 Eugene DeVizio 64m 33.880
7 John Turner 54m 34.100
8 Brett Stokes 60m 34.450



Last edited by Stokesy on Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:18 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : added "(I won Loxton 2011 off 55m)")

Guest

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What has me scratching my head is the quicker times over the past few years in the 300m over 35's.
Loxton 2013 32.5
Marion 2013 33.8
Whyalla 2012 34.8
Loxton 2012 35.55
Marion 2012 37.05
Whyalla 2011 36.84
Loxton 2011 35.01
Marion 2011 36.40
Whyalla 2010 36.97

Now I know we have varying weather conditions and it appears maybe Whyalla being early in the season not all are upto speed?
Its frustrating training for 300's thinking your times are about the mark, feeling confident about being competitive and bang the times get quicker.
Even more so this season, with the thought a 35 second 300 will give me a great shot at it, bang you need 34's then 33's and now 32's???
Anyone have a theory as to why this is happening?
Talking to someone at Loxton they mentioned 33's were the order of the day back 10 years ago or so, I don't have records of this but I take their word for it.

Stokesy

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Hey Over35er, good question.

The answer seems to be a matter of increased handicaps and also improved speeds.

Leon said "The 300m fields were lifted 10m to accommodate Duncan Tippins running at Whyalla and Marion" in email to me last week, as copied earlier in this thread.

So that is part of the explanation.

My number crunching for Loxton (2011/12/13) shows:
(a) some competitors are running faster
(for example, Cheryl Zeuner by almost .5 m/sec or maybe 15m over the distance run, equivalent to nearly 3 secs)

(b) some competitors have had their marks raised by 6 metres over and above the "Tippins ten metre lift for Whyalla 2012"
(for example, Cheryl Zeuner has had a 16m lift since Loxton 2011 - this is equivalent to 3 secs)

(c) some competitors have both (a) and (b)
(for example, Cheryl Zeuner total equivalent time reduction of almost 6 secs since Loxton 2011)

Not all have had the same lift in terms of metres, let alone in terms of "time equivalents".

Guest

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Guest
The lifts due to Duncan now in the oldies is the likely reason for the quicker times.
Where does everyone think the over 35's comp sits at the moment, when we see younger/quicker guys come into the comp like Duncan. What I mean by this is, will Duncan move up as he competes more? Will he stay off scratch and others move back with each race he competes until the right handicap is found for him?
Is it the time up for some, considering given Duncan off scratch runs 300m and the field stretched out to 198m.
With the debate about limits on some open events and those open events without limits still have athletes recognising when its time to give it up. The open events without limits dont have guys running off somewhere half way down the track or 1/3 round the 300m. The ideology of the league being everyone has the opportunity to be competitive regardless of ability which I'm all for but I think maybe there comes a time?
I dont want to point the finger at anyone, or suggest that an individual should give it up, good on everyone for having a go. However what happens when another young person steps into the realm of over 35's, not sure who's next and how quick they are, but lets assume they are faster than Duncan, the field lifts another 5-10m where does this end? Has over 35's ever had someone run off say 150m in a 300?
Dont get me wrong half the fun and appeal of a 300 is to bust your guts to run down a front marker but maybe a line needs to be drawn. I may have this wrong but it appears the distance from back marker to front marker will continue to grow and become almost farcical.
Should over 35's have a limit given we have an over 45's comp. By limit I'm not suggesting the same limits that apply in some of the open events, but something in-between, say 60m for a 300, 40m for a 200?
Any thoughts people?
Am I contradicting myself?

Whispers


ProTrack Star
ProTrack Star
I think what we need to do when an EXCEPTIONAL runner nominates is that they be placed behind scrtatch and move up to a positive mark from there.
This way the handicapper only has to deal with one runner and not worrying about moving the field forward so far they only run half the distance and also worrying about who ran at a particular meeting and who didnt.

Admin

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Admin
Admin
32.5 is too fast for a codger's 300m. Leon would agree with this. Duncan Tippins wouldn't break 35s off scratch on a good grass track. So clearly the marks have crept out too far.

Leon will analyse results and make the relevant changes.

My personal view is the limit should be 75m; 25% of the distance. Regardless of age or gender.

http://protrack.easyforumlive.com

timj


congratulations to Cheryl Zeuner on fantastic night out. A win in the 300 vets and 2nd in the 1000m.!
Cheryl's always out there giving 100% and its great to see her getting the rewards from her efforts.

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