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PROTRACK » GENERAL » VRTA Survey - Asafa

VRTA Survey - Asafa

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1 VRTA Survey - Asafa on Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:37 am

cali mike

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Stawell isn't happy....who could blame them.

The Stawell Athletic Club advises that we had no input into the survey developed by the Victorian Runners and Trainers Association and distributed to the running fraternity by the Victorian Athletic League today. We were not consulted in this process, and believe that this is not the way to effect change via a one sided and leading survey asking athletes for their “concerns on how Asafa Powell’s entry may impact on the Stawell Gift and the 120+ athletes that compete in the event”.

2 Re: VRTA Survey - Asafa on Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:23 am

Phantom

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At the end of the day the Stawell Gift is ran by the SAC and the VAL and it is their call in regards to limits, etc. I would have thought the VRTA committee has enough collective knowledge to provide feedback to their Board representative without having to resort to a survey.
Powell running at Stawell is a massive opportunity for professional running to gain some credibility and it runs the risk of being hijacked once again by self interest and ego. If Powell gets run out in the heat or semi by 2-3 metres by a runner off 15m how do you think the public will perceive the sport?? Certainly noone wants to see it handed to him on a silver platter but for the credibility of the sport he needs to be very, very competitive.
Make it a 12m limit and lift the field 2.5m with Ross on 1m, now that would make it interesting!

3 Re: VRTA Survey - Asafa on Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:46 am

youngy

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Yep, well said Phantom. If the wording is as cali mike has indicated then that's disappointing. The survey will achieve nothing but a little bit of angst & unnecessary friction.

This is unprecedented in Stawell's history (a sub 9.8s 100m runner in the field) - the number of people talking about Stawell & the potential for what Powell might do will be fantastic in the lead up. If this doesn't pull a crowd similar to what we saw in Stawell's halcyon days, then nothing (apart from Bolt...) will.

The poll on Protrack overwhelmingly supports a 12m limit, and with Josh Ross, a hardened 120m specialist likely to be on between 1.0m and 2.0m, the possibility of them meeting in the final is tantalising.

The fastest time (electric) ever by an athlete from scratch on Central Park is 12.08s by Jon Drummond.

I'm not convinced Powell will run faster than that.

The way it's looking he will almost certainly have to break 12s to win.

His last 20m on grass (slightly uphill) will be the killer. He has run a lot of races over 100m on synthetic tracks in the last few years where he has eased up before the line.

He won't want to do that at Stawell.



_________________
"Let's Go While We're Young"

4 Re: VRTA Survey - Asafa on Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:01 pm

DamnFast


Here's the survey http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/QLWKGN8

I am happy for people to make up their own mind but seems a funny way to operate

5 Re: VRTA Survey - Asafa on Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:21 pm

DizzyRunner


ProTrack Star
ProTrack Star
A survey is the most reasonable and practical way to collect feedback from those most affected by changes to marks as a result of Asafa's addition.

Why are those in positions of authority so afraid to listen to the stakeholders whom they represent?

When you put your most important stakeholder, the regular pro-runner, last on your list of importance you are on a slippery slope.

It's easy for S.A.C to discount the fact that some athletes will probably not be able to compete/be competitive in the Gift because those at S.A.C aren't the ones who'll be missing out. They'll have their egos massaged with the knowledge that they got one of the greatest sprinters of all time to Stawell (even if it was at the expence of those runners who keep the whole competition afloat).

Dizzy doesn't care about sprinting but cares when races and guidelines are created based on how big a TV audience can be obtained, rather than implementing the fairest most equitable solution.

Every piece of research we have about investing in sport shows that investment at the junior level returns an exponentially higher rate than increasing prize money at the top-end. However, those in charge of sporting events receive far less status for bragging about increasing the participation rate of juniors in pro-racing by 50%.

6 Re: VRTA Survey - Asafa on Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:24 pm

DizzyRunner


ProTrack Star
ProTrack Star
“The spectacle is capital accumulated to the point where it becomes image.”

― Guy Debord

7 Re: VRTA Survey - Asafa on Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:38 pm

Roadrunner


Dizzyrunner, I understand your argument and you make valid points. We only have to look at the demise of the Botany Bay Gift in NSW (bigger prize money than Stawell). Whilst there were outside factors, no doubt a contributing factor was the reduction in handicap limit to 5m which meant the size of the field was drastically reduced.

I do however see that entry of Asafa Powell in this years Stawell Gift as a hige boost to the carnival and the sport in general. It also doesn't make it unfair to other runners.

All runners entering the "Gift" event at Stawell know that there is a 10m limit and therefore need to be prepared to be competitive within that range. The Stawell gift is the biggest race in Australia with the biggest prize money so the threat of a world class runner entering is always present. Yes a 2m lift (which is all I believe there should be) is going to make many of the front markers not competitive, but that is the risk they take if they are peaking for this particular race. There are plenty of other major gifts that have a bigger limit.

The gift is generally won between 12.1 and 12.2. If Asafa can run close to 12 flat off scratch than he is a deserved winner. Maybe that sounds harsh to someone who runs off 10m but lets remember that this is the Stawell Gift, and it isn't meant to be easy.

8 Re: VRTA Survey - Asafa on Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:45 pm

ToM

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Stawell Athletic Club's role is to look out for themselves, while the VRTA's role is to look out for its members; those priorities are not always going to be in complete alignment.

Many people have already expressed concern about the soundness of the decision to fund Asafa's Stawell visit, as they did regarding Kim Collins and Michael Frater, particularly given it is likely going to cost more to get Powell to attend, as well as the precarious financial position the SAC was in only a few years ago without the promise of ongoing Victorian Government funding.

There are legitimate questions about the absolute value of paying for an international guest to attend the Stawell Gift, and just how much that will boost spectator attendance. It might very well increase the television audience, but unless the SAC and VAL have a deal to share revenue with Channel 10 (extremely unlikely), that gains them nothing, as a temporary increase in television audience is not going to increase the number of athletes participating in the VAL in the future, or increase future Stawell Gift entries in any way.

Unless the SAC decides to allow Powell to be handicapped behind scratch (again, unlikely as he'd probably be starting on the circular track), Powell's participation is likely going to ensure that a sizeable portion of frontmarkers will find themselves crushed against a disproportionately lifted limit, making them uncompetitive. The extent of the effect of this on Gift entries/scratchings and future VAL participation remains to be determined.

The question then remains as to how much the Stawell Athletic Club is willing to sacrifice for the sake of their prestige and collective ego? The decision to invite and pay for Asafa Powell to run might make for an interesting spectacle, but it was clearly not made with the best interests of the athletes in mind.

It is the participation of regular athletes who are responsible for funding and supporting the VAL and Stawell Athletic Club, and responsible for making Stawell the event it currently is on the Australian athletic calendar. They have been responsible for creating its past and will be the people responsible for ensuring its future, long after Asafa Powell has left Central Park. The SAC undermines that support at their peril.


Edit. Your points are valid, youngy, but the question still needs to be addressed - what will Powell's participation do for pro running? The way you and Phantom have phrased it, the only acceptable outcome is Powell vs. Ross in the final. Long after they disappear, it will be the same regular athletes - Phantom's frontmarker lifted to 15m - on whom the VAL and all other leagues depend to enter and compete week-in, week-out, in order for there to even be a pro running circuit.

The credibility of pro running is not dependent on the presence of Asafa Powell; the very nature of creating a special handicap for a special guest goes against the entire premise of pro running - each athlete building to a handicap over time, and needing to improve beyond that mark to win. I dare suggest that the increase in number of junior participants that the SAAL is enjoying and hopes to translate into increased participation at senior ranks, is not based on the presence of celebrity athletes. It's through the creation of a large, sustainable base of athlete support that pro running holds any credibility.

9 Re: VRTA Survey - Asafa on Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:50 pm

ToM

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ProTrack Star
ProTrack Star
DizzyRunner wrote:When you put your most important stakeholder, the regular pro-runner, last on your list of importance you are on a slippery slope.

^^This.

DizzyRunner wrote:(even if it was at the expence of those runners who keep the whole competition afloat).

^^And this.

DizzyRunner wrote:Every piece of research we have about investing in sport shows that investment at the junior level returns an exponentially higher rate than increasing prize money at the top-end. However, those in charge of sporting events receive far less status for bragging about increasing the participation rate of juniors in pro-racing by 50%.

^^And definitely this.

Dizzyrunner gold! Not bad for a man so often deprived of oxygen.

10 Re: VRTA Survey - Asafa on Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:52 pm

Phantom

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ToM you make some fine points, however there is one major thing you fail to understand or address.

The Stawell Gift is the absolute pinnacle of the VAL calender and the only true showcase of professional running for the majority of the population. It is a different event completely than the other 20+ meetings on the calender each season (that is why so many runners cheat their arses off all season just for this meeting). The majority of the 'rank and file' pro runners go to Stawell with no chance of winning the Gift, or most other races, but still go regardless.

It is part of the contract with Australia Post that SAC spend money on attracting a drawcard entry and you can't deny they have well and truly risen to the occasion this time with who they have secured. You're right about the credibility of Stawell not depending on the presence of Asafa Powell, but that is not what I said. His competitiveness will reflect the credibility of the event, like it or not that's the reality.

You also ask what will Asafa Powell's presence do for Pro running?? A hell of a lot more than you think, it will show to a lot of doubting 'amateurs' that the event is world class and not a sideshow (again, only if he is competitive).

SAC is already going a long way toward attracting the juniors to the sport with the involvement of LA's over the past few years and if you don't think those juniors are going to be motivated by the presence of Asafa Powell then you are delusional.

11 Re: VRTA Survey - Asafa on Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:07 pm

youngy

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Admin
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For over 130 years now pro-running promoters have made all sorts of efforts to attract the best available talent to their meets.

Stawell attracting Asafa Powell is no different to its & the VAL's efforts in the past to getting Barney Ewell, Herb McKenley, Jean-Louis Ravelomantansoa, Warren Edmondson, & John Smith in the pro only days and in more recent times - Linford Christie, Obadele Thompson, Jon Drummond, Christian Malcolm, Kim Collins & Michael Frater. Just that this is the biggest & fastest athlete in pro-running history to ever run in the VAL.

We know it will have no impact on the recruitment of future athletes but it does add a different dimension in terms of publicity & promotion, the likes we haven't seen before.

It's really not going to have an ongoing impact on the entry numbers for the Stawell Gift or any other Gift. They've been in steady decline since the halcyon days of 300 plus entries anyway.

I can't see the point of worrying about what impact it will have nor having a survey about it. But if others do then fair enough. What they do with the results is up to them.

Let's just enjoy watching the most prolific sub 10s athlete of all time try and become the first ever to win from scratch in a sub 12s time.

And by the way, I won't be overly disappointed if he doesn't make the final, nor Ross for that matter. That's the beauty of Stawell, the swiftest is not guaranteed the backmarker's silk in a Stawell final. (Jon Drummonmd ran 12.08s and still missed) The Stawell Gift Final will be another great event regardless of who is there.


_________________
"Let's Go While We're Young"

12 Re: VRTA Survey - Asafa on Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:18 pm

ToM

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On reflection, I think part of the problem with this issue is that it represents a confluence of many areas of concern. Many athletes may care little for issues of governance and future proofing of the sport, but handicaps and limits are tangible subjects for which the effects can be directly observed. In contrast, former participants who are now coaches, officials and club organisers may be more concerned with the history and prestige of particular events and pro running in general, fearing that changes to limits or scratch rules, for example, may risk devaluing events of which they have been past winners.

Asafa Powell's paid attendance represents many of these issues and more, and risks creating a schism between athletes, many of whom already feel under-represented in terms of board decision making processes, and league and club officials.

The easiest solution is to:
1) Lift the limit to 11m and then lift the entire field to accomodate Josh Ross and his Bay/St. Albans performances; and,
2) Start Asafa Powell behind scratch.

Doing this separates the issues of use of funding, governance, creating a spectacle, attracting an audience and maintenance of prestige from the direct effects on athletes wishing to enter the Gift.

It maintains the consistency and integrity of the limit, and allows the handicappers to make accurate and legitimate decisions about Powell's likely capabilities without having to weigh those decisions against the possibility of penalising 40 per cent of the field and harming entries or ongoing athlete support for the event.

It also reflects the "special" nature and circumstances surrounding Powell's entry; even Drummond and Christie couldn't offer the level of performance that Powell's history means to sprinting. It allows the SAC to ammend their position without harming their relationship with a decent section of the pro running community upon which they, for better or worse, and whether they consider it or not, depend for their ongoing existence.

13 gift limits on Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:02 pm

Guest

avatar
Guest
val regulation
2/33sets classic limit to 10%
2/35 allows club pre season to set a variation pre season !!!!!!!!!!!
2/34 in special circumstance val may approve a limit that is not in accordance w allows with reg 2/33
2/37 allows handicapper to adjust limits by amount set by handicapper

14 Re: VRTA Survey - Asafa on Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:45 pm

Guest

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Guest
What a dilemma, just saying. lol!

15 Re: VRTA Survey - Asafa on Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:08 pm

sinister


ProTrack A Grader
ProTrack A Grader
Let's not let the facts stand in the way of a good story so here are some facts.

Fastest time recorded at Stawell - 2000 - Jon Drummond 12.08 (SCR) RPM - 0.10066667

Jon Drummond - Personal Best - 9.92 (1997) 200m - 20.03 (1997)
1999 Season Best - 100m- 10.04 200m - 20.29
2000 Season Bests - 100m - 9.96 200m - 20.17

Jon Drummond did not run under 10 seconds prior to his visit to Stawell in 1999 but went on in the Olympic year to run 9.96 (0.04 away from his Personal Best) Drummond ran under 10 seconds only once that season and ran his fastest times between July and September. John Smith would always work on a double periodisation at US Trials and then at Major Championships which was evident within the 2000 season

Asafa Powell - Personal Best - 9.72 (2008) 200m - 19.90 (2006)
2011 Season Best - 100m - 9.78
2012 Season Best - 100m - 9.85

Asafa Powell had a sub par season in 2012 but ran an =PB over 60m of 6.50 and a SB of 9.85. Asafa opened his season with a 9.88 in May (just over 4 weeks after the Stawell Gift is run) he went on to run 9.91 and 9.85 in his next 2 outings. Everyone knows that Steve Francis has his runners complete a consistent peak throughout the season. Asafa will usually be running 9.8 in May and on normal occasions drop down to 9.7 by September.

2012 SEASON ANALYSIS - Asafa Powell
9.85 (07/06)
9.88 (11/05) Season opener
9.88 (29/06)
9.91 (31/05)
9.92 (29/06)
9.94 (05/08)
TOP 3 Times RPM - 0.0987

2000 SEASON ANLYSIS - Jon Drummond
9.96 (01/09)
10.05 (15/07)
10.07 (15/07)
10.09 (23/09)
10.10 (23/09)
TOP 3 Times RPM - 0.10026667

Jon Drummond ran within 0.0004 of his top 3 season average at Stawell in 2000 with 12.08. During that season the majority of the field received a +2.25 - +2.75m lift for Jon Drummond visiting our shores.

2011 SEASON ANLYSIS - Asafa Powell
9.78 (30/06)
9.86 (30/07)
9.90 (24/06)
9.90 (30/07)
9.91 (10/07)
9.93 (26/05)
9.95 (15/05) Season Opener
TOP 3 Times RPM - 0.09846667

Will our handicapper have access to this information and will Mr Culbert and Jump Media (who called for the athletes commission to stand up and have a voice during the 2012 Olympics due to stand over tactics from our governing body) assist in the handicapping process.

Youngy you are kidding yourself if you think that Asafa is not going to be in the same shape as Jon Drummond that year. We are dealing with a whole different class of runner and this is beyond FANTASTIC for Stawell, the VAL, the athletes and most of all Jump Media! However, their are still a number of athletes who pay their registration and compete every week for the chance to be competitive within the Stawell Gift. It looks as though the VRTA are covering all bases to make sure the spectacle is dealt with in a fair and equitable manner for all of it's members.

The FACTS speak for themselves people:

Asafa is possible of having an RPM on the day of 0.099 on a bad day. This will put the Target Time at approximately 11.88. Let's imagine he is totally out of shape and is 2m off this time he is still capable of 12.00. For the majority (95%) of VAL athletes to be competitive and reach this time they will need a lift of at least 3.75-4.00m on their current marks as they stand. Let's say we are leaving the limit at 11 (I feel it should be only a max of 12m 10% of the distance covered) This eliminates a big section of the runners who compete week in week out.
Asafa has ran sub 10 seconds over 80 times and has run under 9.90 in May 4 times over the past few seasons. Feel free to Google the latest opening races of Shelley Ann-Fraser and Nesta Carter and realise that Asafa will be in shape. The only times Asafa has been susceptible to pressure is when he is racing Usain, Yohan, Gatin or Gay. Somehow I don't think we will be seeing these guys here as well. Asafa like Frater and Collins over the past couple of seasons will be more than comfortable on the grass and over the distance.

Now I don't need a survey to assist me but the facts speak for themselves.


All of the following athletes who are competing at Ballarat this weekend would now be deemed uncompetitive in the 2013 Stawell Gift

Dylan PANIZZA WESTERN 7.25
6908 Ryan SCHMIDT QUEENSLAND 7.25
5659 Fabrice MELANIE NOBLE PARK 7.25
6576 Tom PAAVOLA NEW SOUTH 7.5
6219 Craig ROLLINSON WARRAGUL 7.5
6567 Tim ESCHEBACH NEW SOUTH 7.75
2637 Douglas GREENOUGH EAST BENTLEIGH 7.75
6888 Dean DOBRIC ST KILDA 7.75
6447 Sean LAW MOOROOLBARK 8
3389 Luke WHITNEY TASMANIA 8
3018 Robert SPENCER ESSENDON 8
6143 Edward WARE NEW SOUTH 8
6056 Dale LYONS ARMADALE NORTH 8.25
3321 Matthew EDDY NARRE WARREN 8.25
8928 Josh TIU DONCASTER 8.25
6739 Stuart ROOKE BEAUMARIS 8.5
6679 Andrew CAMPBELL ELTHAM 8.5
6395 Jordan KEAST DELACOMBE 8.5
6144 Simon FITZPATRICK WINDSOR 8.5
5631 Daniel LEMOTO TASMANIA 8.5
1963 Shane EZARD TORQUAY 8.75
5682 Braydon NEWELL BALLARAT 9
5592 Jarrad DARTNALL DERNANCOURT 9
7238 Leigh PHELAN BRIGHTON 9
6507 Jack DOOLEY Flora HILL 9.25
2341 Nathan FOX BALLARAT 9.25
5742 Adam COOTE ELWOOD 9.25
0806 Peter O'DWYER BALLARAT 9.25
7079 Rhys PARKINSON MELTON SOUTH 9.5
5303 Nick SAMPIERI PRAHRAN 9.5
6448 David FENOLLAR RESERVOIR 9.5
3196 Bradley LETTON SOUTH 9.5
7221 Geoffrey PITTMAN OAKLEY EAST 9.5
5604 Nick MAGREE MITCHAM 9.5
2496 Dylan HICKS SOUTH 9.75
6192 Shane WOODROW REDAN 9.75
8822 Chris DIEGAN WILLIAMSTOWN 9.75
7912 Simon JACKSON BENTLEIGH 10
1765 Matthew CALLARD WERRIBEE 10
0612 Matthew D'ASTOLI SOUTH YARRA 10
5671 Jarrod LINDNER LAVINGTON 10.5
6087 Matthew MIFSUD COBURG 10.75
6258 Matthew HARVEY KEYSBOROUGH 10.75
6428 Glenn ROSS WESTERN 10.75
5896 William LITTLE CAULFIELD 11
2165 Gavin O'NEIL BROOKFIELD 11

My .02 cents



16 Re: VRTA Survey - Asafa on Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:25 pm

Guest

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Guest
My suggestion to those on your list Sinister is to not "complain" if the limit isn't changed as they may be deemed "selfish" or a "hack" and would likely make the event "uninteresting" only to be pointed to go in another event and stop "whinging".


17 Re: VRTA Survey - Asafa on Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:02 pm

DizzyRunner


ProTrack Star
ProTrack Star
over35er wrote:My suggestion to those on your list Sinister is to not "complain" if the limit isn't changed as they may be deemed "selfish" or a "hack" and would likely make the event "uninteresting" only to be pointed to go in another event and stop "whinging".



Pointing out inequity isn't 'whinging'. This attitude that people should 'suck it up' when something doesn't seem right has been the cause of most of the horrible social problems in this country (treatment of women, child-abuse, racism, alcoholism, etc).

A survey to gauge what the stakeholders who keep the Stawell Athletic Club alive, the athletes, is actually in the best interests of the club as well as the athletes.

Let's see whether another $600,000 state government grant is forthcoming when cuts across every portfolio have already been announced. The $10million estimated to flow to the town as the result of the gift is largely a result of athletes, family and friends bringing their city cash to the small town. If they stop coming because 'everyday' runners can't get into races, good luck justifying a continuation of these grants.

Dizzy

18 Re: VRTA Survey - Asafa on Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:08 pm

Guest

avatar
Guest
sinister wrote:Let's not let the facts stand in the way of a good story so here are some facts.

Fastest time recorded at Stawell - 2000 - Jon Drummond 12.08 (SCR) RPM - 0.10066667

Jon Drummond - Personal Best - 9.92 (1997) 200m - 20.03 (1997)
1999 Season Best - 100m- 10.04 200m - 20.29
2000 Season Bests - 100m - 9.96 200m - 20.17

Jon Drummond did not run under 10 seconds prior to his visit to Stawell in 1999 but went on in the Olympic year to run 9.96 (0.04 away from his Personal Best) Drummond ran under 10 seconds only once that season and ran his fastest times between July and September. John Smith would always work on a double periodisation at US Trials and then at Major Championships which was evident within the 2000 season

Asafa Powell - Personal Best - 9.72 (2008) 200m - 19.90 (2006)
2011 Season Best - 100m - 9.78
2012 Season Best - 100m - 9.85

Asafa Powell had a sub par season in 2012 but ran an =PB over 60m of 6.50 and a SB of 9.85. Asafa opened his season with a 9.88 in May (just over 4 weeks after the Stawell Gift is run) he went on to run 9.91 and 9.85 in his next 2 outings. Everyone knows that Steve Francis has his runners complete a consistent peak throughout the season. Asafa will usually be running 9.8 in May and on normal occasions drop down to 9.7 by September.

2012 SEASON ANALYSIS - Asafa Powell
9.85 (07/06)
9.88 (11/05) Season opener
9.88 (29/06)
9.91 (31/05)
9.92 (29/06)
9.94 (05/08)
TOP 3 Times RPM - 0.0987

2000 SEASON ANLYSIS - Jon Drummond
9.96 (01/09)
10.05 (15/07)
10.07 (15/07)
10.09 (23/09)
10.10 (23/09)
TOP 3 Times RPM - 0.10026667

Jon Drummond ran within 0.0004 of his top 3 season average at Stawell in 2000 with 12.08. During that season the majority of the field received a +2.25 - +2.75m lift for Jon Drummond visiting our shores.

2011 SEASON ANLYSIS - Asafa Powell
9.78 (30/06)
9.86 (30/07)
9.90 (24/06)
9.90 (30/07)
9.91 (10/07)
9.93 (26/05)
9.95 (15/05) Season Opener
TOP 3 Times RPM - 0.09846667

Will our handicapper have access to this information and will Mr Culbert and Jump Media (who called for the athletes commission to stand up and have a voice during the 2012 Olympics due to stand over tactics from our governing body) assist in the handicapping process.

Youngy you are kidding yourself if you think that Asafa is not going to be in the same shape as Jon Drummond that year. We are dealing with a whole different class of runner and this is beyond FANTASTIC for Stawell, the VAL, the athletes and most of all Jump Media! However, their are still a number of athletes who pay their registration and compete every week for the chance to be competitive within the Stawell Gift. It looks as though the VRTA are covering all bases to make sure the spectacle is dealt with in a fair and equitable manner for all of it's members.

The FACTS speak for themselves people:

Asafa is possible of having an RPM on the day of 0.099 on a bad day. This will put the Target Time at approximately 11.88. Let's imagine he is totally out of shape and is 2m off this time he is still capable of 12.00. For the majority (95%) of VAL athletes to be competitive and reach this time they will need a lift of at least 3.75-4.00m on their current marks as they stand. Let's say we are leaving the limit at 11 (I feel it should be only a max of 12m 10% of the distance covered) This eliminates a big section of the runners who compete week in week out.
Asafa has ran sub 10 seconds over 80 times and has run under 9.90 in May 4 times over the past few seasons. Feel free to Google the latest opening races of Shelley Ann-Fraser and Nesta Carter and realise that Asafa will be in shape. The only times Asafa has been susceptible to pressure is when he is racing Usain, Yohan, Gatin or Gay. Somehow I don't think we will be seeing these guys here as well. Asafa like Frater and Collins over the past couple of seasons will be more than comfortable on the grass and over the distance.

Now I don't need a survey to assist me but the facts speak for themselves.


All of the following athletes who are competing at Ballarat this weekend would now be deemed uncompetitive in the 2013 Stawell Gift

Dylan PANIZZA WESTERN 7.25
6908 Ryan SCHMIDT QUEENSLAND 7.25
5659 Fabrice MELANIE NOBLE PARK 7.25
6576 Tom PAAVOLA NEW SOUTH 7.5
6219 Craig ROLLINSON WARRAGUL 7.5
6567 Tim ESCHEBACH NEW SOUTH 7.75
2637 Douglas GREENOUGH EAST BENTLEIGH 7.75
6888 Dean DOBRIC ST KILDA 7.75
6447 Sean LAW MOOROOLBARK 8
3389 Luke WHITNEY TASMANIA 8
3018 Robert SPENCER ESSENDON 8
6143 Edward WARE NEW SOUTH 8
6056 Dale LYONS ARMADALE NORTH 8.25
3321 Matthew EDDY NARRE WARREN 8.25
8928 Josh TIU DONCASTER 8.25
6739 Stuart ROOKE BEAUMARIS 8.5
6679 Andrew CAMPBELL ELTHAM 8.5
6395 Jordan KEAST DELACOMBE 8.5
6144 Simon FITZPATRICK WINDSOR 8.5
5631 Daniel LEMOTO TASMANIA 8.5
1963 Shane EZARD TORQUAY 8.75
5682 Braydon NEWELL BALLARAT 9
5592 Jarrad DARTNALL DERNANCOURT 9
7238 Leigh PHELAN BRIGHTON 9
6507 Jack DOOLEY Flora HILL 9.25
2341 Nathan FOX BALLARAT 9.25
5742 Adam COOTE ELWOOD 9.25
0806 Peter O'DWYER BALLARAT 9.25
7079 Rhys PARKINSON MELTON SOUTH 9.5
5303 Nick SAMPIERI PRAHRAN 9.5
6448 David FENOLLAR RESERVOIR 9.5
3196 Bradley LETTON SOUTH 9.5
7221 Geoffrey PITTMAN OAKLEY EAST 9.5
5604 Nick MAGREE MITCHAM 9.5
2496 Dylan HICKS SOUTH 9.75
6192 Shane WOODROW REDAN 9.75
8822 Chris DIEGAN WILLIAMSTOWN 9.75
7912 Simon JACKSON BENTLEIGH 10
1765 Matthew CALLARD WERRIBEE 10
0612 Matthew D'ASTOLI SOUTH YARRA 10
5671 Jarrod LINDNER LAVINGTON 10.5
6087 Matthew MIFSUD COBURG 10.75
6258 Matthew HARVEY KEYSBOROUGH 10.75
6428 Glenn ROSS WESTERN 10.75
5896 William LITTLE CAULFIELD 11
2165 Gavin O'NEIL BROOKFIELD 11

My .02 cents





Hang on... Put Ed Ware, Tiu, Greenough, Eddy and Melanie on a limit of 11m and I don't care who you are, they are going to be real hard to catch. There would be a few others that have also slipped through the cracks. I think Asafa will final but it's gonna be a smoking fast gift and only his very best will win it.

If he brings his best to Stawell he deserves the sash. If he won, it would be the best advertisement and exposure that this great race has ever had.

I can not wait for Easter this year. It's already heating up!!! Mad

19 Re: VRTA Survey - Asafa on Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:42 pm

ToM

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DizzyRunner wrote:
Pointing out inequity isn't 'whinging'. This attitude that people should 'suck it up' when something doesn't seem right has been the cause of most of the horrible social problems in this country (treatment of women, child-abuse, racism, alcoholism, etc).
Dizzy

Over35er wasn't serious, Dizzy; his post was tongue-in-cheek, using some of the comments targetted at him in a previous thread for concerns he raised about the "limits vs. no. of competitors" argument, where he addressed the issue from the perspective of a veteran athlete.

20 Re: VRTA Survey - Asafa on Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:31 am

racingmania


Hey sinister,
re: Asafa like Frater and Collins over the past couple of seasons will be more than comfortable on the grass and over the distance.


neither Frater or Collins made the final in a year where no-one broke 12.1. If the field is pushed out 2m+, at least 6 locals are capable of breaking 12secs off their mark. If Powell doesn't break 12secs then it doesn't matter. BUT If Asafa Powell breaks 12secs and gets beat, or worse doesn't final, it will look ridiculous.

Enjoyed your post though!

21 Re: VRTA Survey - Asafa on Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:53 am

Phantom

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Local regional tv covered the issue in their news bulletins last night and their summary of the VRTA survey was that runners wanted much bigger handicaps as they thought Asafa Powell was 'too good' for them to compete against.
Fantastic job by the VRTA for making the sport look 2nd class. Already the majority of people who know nothing about the sport of pro running think it is a joke that people run off handicaps, but with this sort of negative press coverage it re-inforces the perception.
This could have and should have been handled much better by people who should have known better.

22 Re: VRTA Survey - Asafa on Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:59 am

DizzyRunner


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Phantom wrote:Local regional tv covered the issue in their news bulletins last night and their summary of the VRTA survey was that runners wanted much bigger handicaps as they thought Asafa Powell was 'too good' for them to compete against.
Fantastic job by the VRTA for making the sport look 2nd class. Already the majority of people who know nothing about the sport of pro running think it is a joke that people run off handicaps, but with this sort of negative press coverage it re-inforces the perception.
This could have and should have been handled much better by people who should have known better.


Actually, it's the media that made the sport look second class, not the VRTRA. Who would have thought a journalist had the capacity to spin a story to sell papers? There's a first for everything I guess.

23 Re: VRTA Survey - Asafa on Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:09 am

DamnFast


Unfortunately I think Phantom's point stands...
"This could have and should have been handled much better by people who should have known better"

When the sport has been around this long it really needs to (and should)understand what potential tack the media may take with "interesting" stories - perception is everything in the battle to win the sporting public

24 Re: VRTA Survey - Asafa on Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:10 pm

Guest

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[/quote][/color]
Pointing out inequity isn't 'whinging'. This attitude that people should 'suck it up' when something doesn't seem right has been the cause of most of the horrible social problems in this country (treatment of women, child-abuse, racism, alcoholism, etc).
Dizzy[/quote]

As ToM mentioned Dizzy wasnt have a dig, I copped it a bit on another thread a few weeks back, funny how the circles have turned, where now we find the limit situation effecting more athletes.

The young athletes today need an outlet, and for the leagues to listen and not be run entirely by the old guys of yesteryear living in the past.

25 Re: VRTA Survey - Asafa on Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:08 pm

Admin

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If ensuring the integrity of our Classic races is maintained by advocating for respectable limits and not lowering the standards to accommodate mediocrity, then I'm happy to be accused of being yesterday's man.

That's why I will never coach codgers, because a lot of them think they have a god given right to be competitive in our major races until they almost have one foot in the grave.

The future of this sport is in the recruitment of youth, building a critical mass and thereby improving the quality & rasing the standards; so that we will have plenty of athletes that remain competitive even when an Asafa Powell is entered for the Stawell Gift.

http://protrack.easyforumlive.com

26 Re: VRTA Survey - Asafa on Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:53 pm

jknott123


whats all the fuss about we are talking about the Stawell Gift the greatest footrace on this planet and has been for many years.The limit should be 10m whoever runs. if you have to run 12s so be it. i dont care who comes from overseas there will always be a local set to run 12s and win.check the results over the last 40 years thats what makes it the best footrace to run in.mind you i dont agree with all that prisemoney going to the winner for 3 runs of about 12.5s when us poor old distance runners have to run what seems like hours to get a lousy grand.

27 Re: VRTA Survey - Asafa on Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:44 pm

Guest

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Its certainly an interesting concept that its ok for a 43 year old to run off 8m and catch someone off 35m, but its considered somewhat unfair for a 20 something to run off 7m to catch someone off 16m.

Once again the comment on old guys of yesteryear living in the past running the sport was tongue in cheek, with a hint of realism that might be needed?

The use of a survey is to allow others to have an opinion, particularly if changes to a major event like Stawell effect the prospects of those that usually compete at Stawell with a level of competitiveness.
Asafa competing and Ross's recent wins make the discussion on the limit warranted probably more than ever.
I personally think given the unique circumstances this year, the limit should perhaps be lifted to 12m.
This allows the regular competitive athletes that are off around the 8-9m mark the opportunity to enter Stawell as they would have thought they could have at the start of the year, without being disadvantaged.
What if every year we have someone like Asafa competing at Stawell? It'd be great to watch but its at the loss of the regular competitors.
If the VAL keep the 10m limit most of those on Sinister's list wont be competitive, these guys registered with the league at the start of the year surely expecting to be competitive at Stawell at the end of the season.
I guess one thing is for sure, at least Stawell like the Bay Sheffield does have other same distant events for those outside the limit.

28 Re: VRTA Survey - Asafa on Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:11 pm

youngy

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I have it from a very reliable source, (even if he use to be a 'fat moron tosser'), that the Stawell Athletic Club are content with a 12m limit to accommodate Asafa Powell.

So it is almost certain to be 12.0m.

I reckon that seems fair and acceptable to most.






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29 Re: VRTA Survey - Asafa on Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:36 pm

DizzyRunner


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youngy wrote:I have it from a very reliable source, (even if he use to be a 'fat moron tosser'), that the Stawell Athletic Club are content with a 12m limit to accommodate Asafa Powell.

So it is almost certain to be 12.0m.

I reckon that seems fair and acceptable to most.






That's a little presumptive Youngy. I think what you mean is 'that seems fair to people who agree with me'. Actually asking athletes what they thought would be 'fair and acceptable' but we wouldn't want to do that cos we might find out that plenty of them find it to be 'not so fair'. Guess we'll never know.

30 Re: VRTA Survey - Asafa on Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:36 pm

youngy

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Not presumptive at all.

Based on the only gauge available - the Protrack poll, 12m seems fair to most.


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