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PROTRACK » GENERAL » Tea Tree Gully (SAAL) Handicaps

Tea Tree Gully (SAAL) Handicaps

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1 Tea Tree Gully (SAAL) Handicaps on Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:30 pm

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Tea Tree Gully
Handicaps
Saturday 12th January 2013


Surrey Downs Post Office 70m Open
Todd Bateman 2.00 m
Russell Scott 4.50 m
Gabriel Cole 5.00 m
Chris Innes-Wong 5.00 m
Tjimarri Sanderson-Milera 5.00 m
Jesse Cordoma 5.50 m
James Cibich 5.75 m
Josh Dawkins 5.75 m
Sam O'Grady 5.75 m
Sam Osmond 5.75 m
Lachlan Sheffield 5.75 m
Adrian Harris 6.00 m
Tim Johnson 6.00 m
Peter Kipreou 6.00 m
Bradley Letton 6.00 m
Liam Wright 6.00 m
Kane Russell 6.25 m
Jarrad Dartnall 6.50 m
Jess Rafanelli 6.50 m
Nicholas Giles 7.00 m
Bray Rafanelli 7.50 m
Luke Buchanan 7.75 m
Christopher Simpson 7.75 m
Jason Davis 8.00 m
Ben Wright 8.00 m
Ashley Brown 8.25 m
Ben Hardy 8.25 m
Shaun Ryder 8.75 m
Nathan Hoare 9.25 m
David Miller 9.50 m
Shane Grimwade 10.25 m
David Girolamo 10.50 m
Ali Saliu 10.75 m
Brendan Golden 11.75 m
Mark Donovan 12.50 m



Step Into Life Modbury 70m Women
Andrea Di Paolo 4.50 m
Bridgid Connolly 5.00 m
Hayley Orman 5.50 m
Lauren Edwards 5.75 m
Amy Robb 6.25 m
Mikaela Harmston 7.00 m
Ali Trewartha 7.25 m
Czenya Cavouras 7.50 m
Taylah Scapens 7.50 m
Katie Jury 8.50 m
Natasha Inglis 8.75 m
Nichola Coombe 9.00 m
Monika Klus 9.00 m
Megan Letton 9.00 m
Hettie Driscoll 9.25 m
Rachel Fisk 9.25 m
Lucy Buckley 9.50 m
Hollie Moran 10.00 m
Lesley Tompson 10.25 m
Dominque Edwards 12.50 m
Aimee Lane 12.50 m
Lisa Roberts 12.75 m
Sarah Ayling 13.00 m
Lauren McHugh 13.00 m
Amelia Dawkins 13.50 m
Anthea Kotyla 14.00 m
Kim Staporski 14.00 m



Mort Daly Running Foundation 70m Under 17
Murlin Every 6.00 m
Oliver Callahan 6.50 m
Jack Hannah 7.00 m
Sam O'Grady 7.00 m
Jackson Potter 7.00 m
Josh Koster 7.50 m
Ryan Russell 7.50 m
Bailey Sadedin 8.00 m
Hayden Rothe 9.25 m
Bradley Harvey 9.50 m
Joshua Biggs 9.75 m
Bailey Turner 9.75 m
Maeve Connolly 10.00 m
Amy McLatchie 10.00 m
Kyle Roberts 10.75 m
Caitlin Francis 13.00 m
Katie Jury 14.25 m
Lachlan Burrows 14.75 m
Hollie Moran 14.75 m
Mikayla Round 14.75 m
Madi Blight 15.00 m
Mikaela Harmston 15.00 m
Emily Young 15.00 m
Taylah Scapens 15.50 m
Lachie Moran 15.75 m
Lily Drummond 16.00 m
Emma Jury 16.00 m
Natassia Messent 16.00 m
Bradley Samarcq 17.50 m
Laura Chigwidden 19.00 m



Chris Johnson Memorial 200m Open
James Cibich 12.00 m
Robert Kane 12.00 m
Christopher Leach 12.00 m
Reece Turner 12.00 m
Tjimarri Sanderson-Milera 13.00 m
Josh Dawkins 14.00 m
Peter Kipreou 14.00 m
Jarrad Dartnall 15.00 m
Adrian Harris 15.00 m
Tim Johnson 16.00 m
Bradley Letton 17.00 m
Jake Stangewitz 17.00 m
Ashley Brown 19.00 m
Riordan Welsh 19.00 m
Ben Crawford 20.00 m
Jason Davis 20.00 m
Nicholas Giles 20.00 m
Ben Wright 21.00 m
Luke Buchanan 23.00 m
Aaron Jelfs 23.00 m
Christopher Simpson 24.00 m
Matthew Cousins 25.00 m
Brad Jones 25.00 m
David Girolamo 26.00 m
Nathan Hoare 26.00 m
Shaun Ryder 26.00 m
Shane Grimwade 27.00 m
Brendan Golden 32.00 m
Luke Stewart 32.00 m
Sean Roberts 36.00 m



Supreme Quilts 200m Women
Bridgid Connolly 10.00 m
Lynette Mattingly 10.00 m
Andrea Di Paolo 12.00 m
Hayley Orman 13.00 m
Megan Letton 18.00 m
Amy Robb 18.00 m
Czenya Cavouras 19.00 m
Lauren Edwards 19.00 m
Mikaela Harmston 20.00 m
Yasmin Openshaw 20.00 m
Ali Trewartha 20.00 m
Emily Young 20.00 m
Lucy Buckley 21.00 m
Maeve Connolly 25.00 m
Nichola Coombe 25.00 m
Paige Bateman 26.00 m
Chantel Seaforth 26.00 m
Eleni Glouftsis 27.00 m
Hettie Driscoll 28.00 m
Amelia Dawkins 30.00 m
Tayce Fry 30.00 m
Kim Staporski 30.00 m
Lesley Tompson 30.00 m
Aimee Lane 32.00 m
Lauren McHugh 32.00 m
Lisa Roberts 37.00 m
Anthea Kotyla 38.00 m
Dominque Edwards 45.00 m



Jordan Camplin Memorial 200m Under 20
Tjimarri Sanderson-Milera 4.00 m
Sam Osmond 8.00 m
Kane Russell 8.00 m
Lachlan Sheffield 12.00 m
Jesse Cordoma 14.00 m
Murlin Every 14.00 m
Jack Hannah 14.00 m
Josh Koster 14.00 m
Bray Rafanelli 14.00 m
Bailey Sadedin 14.00 m
Oliver Callahan 16.00 m
Matthew Sinclair 16.00 m
Liam Wright 16.00 m
Jess Rafanelli 18.00 m
Max Stevens 20.00 m
Tim Earle 22.00 m
Hayden Rothe 22.00 m
Ben Sieben 22.00 m
Corey Watkins 24.00 m
Bradley Harvey 26.00 m
Amy McLatchie 26.00 m
Kyle Roberts 26.00 m
Joshua Biggs 28.00 m
Lachlan Burrows 30.00 m
Natasha Inglis 32.00 m
Mikayla Round 32.00 m
Taylah Scapens 33.00 m
Tayce Fry 34.00 m
Caitlin Francis 35.00 m
Rachel Fisk 38.00 m
Katie Jury 38.00 m
Laura Chigwidden 40.00 m
Lily Drummond 40.00 m
Hollie Moran 42.00 m
Emma Jury 46.00 m
Patricia Dimitrak 52.00 m



Retirement Strategies 200m Over 45
Ali Saliu 10.00 m
Andrew Buttery 16.00 m
Steve Butler 17.00 m
Mark Donovan 22.00 m
John Turner 26.00 m
Peter Biggs 28.00 m
Ross Hill-Brown 29.00 m
Mick Abbott 31.00 m
Brett Stokes 31.00 m
Chris Dimitrak 32.00 m
Eugene DeVizio 34.00 m
Mark Barnett 35.00 m
Gary Ferber 36.00 m
Mark Howson 40.00 m
Sue Turner 40.00 m
Darcy Cheney 42.00 m
Lyn Peake 49.00 m
Cheryl Zeuner 56.00 m
Brian Hart 62.00 m



SA Athletic League 550m Over 35
Brian Golden 10.00 m
Shane Grimwade 34.00 m
Andrew Buttery 36.00 m
Salvador Jurado 36.00 m
Steven Wilson 36.00 m
Andrew Wright 38.00 m
Richard McMahon 42.00 m
Ali Saliu 44.00 m
Nathan Hoare 46.00 m
David Miller 47.00 m
Geoff Troiano 55.00 m
Brendan Golden 56.00 m
George Diakomichalis 60.00 m
Rafal Staporski 60.00 m
Lisa Attenborough 68.00 m
Catherine Cavouras 68.00 m
Chris Dimitrak 75.00 m
Mick Abbott 76.00 m
Peter Brennan 78.00 m
Trudy Schrapel 80.00 m
Daniel Tregenza 80.00 m
Mark Barnett 96.00 m
John Turner 96.00 m
Eugene DeVizio 98.00 m
Mark Howson 114.00 m
Felicity Alexander 130.00 m
Brian Witty 130.00 m



Myadd Advertising 550m Novice
Bradley Kitto 26.00 m
Christopher Leach 26.00 m
Richard Ray-Zwar 26.00 m
Reece Turner 26.00 m
Jamie Broadbent 32.00 m
Jason Davis 32.00 m
Josh Dawkins 32.00 m
Damian Robinson 32.00 m
Christopher Simpson 32.00 m
Robert Kane 34.00 m
Max Stevens 35.00 m
Liam Wright 36.00 m
Stephen Jelfs 40.00 m
Matthew Sinclair 44.00 m
Hayden Rothe 45.00 m
Corey Watkins 45.00 m
Jacobi Ponury 46.00 m
Dane Fenton 48.00 m
Nicholas Giles 48.00 m
Nathan Hoare 50.00 m
Leif Christensen 52.00 m
Rafal Staporski 60.00 m
Andrew Wright 60.00 m
Ben Sieben 62.00 m
Aaron Jelfs 66.00 m
Matthew Konetschka 66.00 m
James Grant 68.00 m
Matthew Zacher 76.00 m
Ashlee Broadbent 85.00 m
Luke Stewart 96.00 m
Felicity Alexander 130.00 m
Patricia Dimitrak 130.00 m



Mort Daly Running Foundation 800m Open
richard ray-zwar 36.00 m
Reece Turner 36.00 m
Jason Davis 40.00 m
Bradley Kitto 40.00 m
Salvador Jurado 46.00 m
Tim Earle 55.00 m
Stephen Jelfs 60.00 m
Jake Stangewitz 60.00 m
Ben Crawford 62.00 m
Damian Robinson 62.00 m
Leif Christensen 70.00 m
Matthew Konetschka 74.00 m
Adam Cleary 80.00 m
Dillon Tee 82.00 m
Matthew Fallon 86.00 m
Brad Jones 92.00 m
David Girolamo 98.00 m
Rafal Staporski 100.00 m
James Grant 102.00 m
Geoff Troiano 108.00 m
Richard McMahon 110.00 m
Peter Brennan 120.00 m
Mick Abbott 154.00 m
Luke Stewart 154.00 m



Don Robertson Remedial 800m Women
Bridgid Connolly 34.00 m
Czenya Cavouras 54.00 m
Kim Staporski 60.00 m
Jane Mudge 66.00 m
Paige Bateman 72.00 m
Amy Robb 72.00 m
Megan Letton 80.00 m
Lauren McHugh 85.00 m
Ali Trewartha 85.00 m
Lisa Roberts 90.00 m
Catherine Cavouras 95.00 m
Roula Ghaoui 104.00 m
Courtney Ryder 110.00 m
Anthea Kotyla 120.00 m
Isabella Partington 160.00 m
Cheryl Zeuner 180.00 m

http://protrack.easyforumlive.com

2 Re: Tea Tree Gully (SAAL) Handicaps on Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:37 pm

shark


Is interesting to note the new phenomenon hitting pro-running; gaining lifts from scratching. One makes me think i might be a chance in a couple of meets if i just scratch a couple of times. (Tongue planted firmly in cheek) What happened to being rewarded for entering and competing in events???

3 Re: Tea Tree Gully (SAAL) Handicaps on Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:45 pm

Rookie Error


Handicapping is a Very tough job no doubt, but I'm quite confused atm. I'm relatively new to the sport, so hopefully I'll understand in time, but if there was room for more tranparency I'd be all for it.

Cheers.

4 Re: Tea Tree Gully (SAAL) Handicaps on Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:47 pm

Running Man

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I'm going to admit confusion to the way Ben Crawford is being handicapped. No offense to Crawf for he's a hard worker, top bloke and earned his wins but what is going on with his handicap? At this point he's won 6 in a row this season including 3 high paying races and one of those at the Bay. How can he have moved back only 6m in the 800m, especially given the convincing fashion a few of those were won in?

It doesn't really affect me as I've won a few races, don't feel too hard done by off my mark and still consider myself competitive but I'm sure there's plenty of runners that are looking to atleast make podiums if not win while Ben off of 62m is still likely lining up for his 7th win in a row.

5 Re: Tea Tree Gully (SAAL) Handicaps on Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:38 pm

racingmania


Ben Crawford would have won the Bay Sheffield 800m by a country mile. He should win this easily. I agree with Running Man, it's time the handicapper said to Ben, you've had a good run, now it's time to go back among the backies.

6 Re: Tea Tree Gully (SAAL) Handicaps on Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:14 pm

Guest

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Benny goes out competing regardless of the mark he gets given. However he trains better than his handicaps, and this year he is in career best form.....at 33 years of age! This is why he has won 6 in a row. He's a class runner, with a work ethic like few others. So rather than be worried about his handicap, I would suggest working out what training/racing you need to do to beat him. I have no doubt that Benny will run on from tight marks in the some quality mile races in the second half.

7 Re: Tea Tree Gully (SAAL) Handicaps on Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:51 pm

birdman


dont know how the distance handicapper works but the sprint handicapper pulls people for just one win so id say the ben has been given a easy run, not fair on all other runners but like someone said maybe others have to look at the training they are doing as well....

8 Re: Tea Tree Gully (SAAL) Handicaps on Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:19 am

Ribera

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You guys in SA are kidding aren’t you? What has 6 wins got to do with anything? He’s won only one 800m race this season (Whyalla) and got a 6m penalty. In SA he needs the 62m because there are a lot of young guys on big handicaps in 800’s just sitting there relying on lifts to get them over the line. Ironically the Whyalla 800m was a straight out final because the 800m runners did not support the race, now you want to lynch the winner.
Harden up people and get down to the training track. Oh and try not to shit yourself when you line up against Ben this week, he is as hard as nails and wants to take you down.

Ben you are what pro running is all about, putting in the hard work to enable you to take the opportunities that present themselves. The look on JL’s face said it all when you crossed the line in the Bay Mile.

9 Re: Tea Tree Gully (SAAL) Handicaps on Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:49 am

shark


Ribera I suggest you tone it down a little and look at some facts. How can someone like a B. Jones get pulled 20 metres for winning a $1000 Bay Sheffield sash and B. Crawford get pulled 6 metres for winning a race of similar value??

Benny will win Tea Tree gully by the length of the straight and deservedly so he is great knick but it is becoming boring seeing him win all the time.

Also Ribera, I think it is extremely presumptious to think that others arent training hard to beat him. I know at the stable I am at we have busted our guts all year and continue to do so.

10 Re: Tea Tree Gully (SAAL) Handicaps on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:12 am

Ribera

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You say you train hard and maybe you do? But do you really train hard or do you train hard to your handicap? To see the improvement in Ben shows he has a different comittment than previous years. He has gone to a different level. This is what most backies have to do year in year out.

What is this same value bulls--t. Comparing Bay Sheff to Whyalla is like comparing Wimbledon to the Adelaide international.
How old is Brad Jones and how did he get his 800m handicap to over 100m to win the Bay Sheff? For goodness sake Mark Beveridge who is over 45 still gives Brad a head start.
Brad is young with plenty of chance to improve. He just got his handicap to the point where he couldn't lose. Good on him though, he took his chance when it came along.
In my opinion, the 800m handicaps is SA are a joke. Gary Z was class runner and has a clue about what it takes to train and race hard. Hopefully he can revamp the handicaps over the winter.

ps. this is bordering on the limit discussion and backs up some of Youngy's arguments about young blokes having something to strive for by working hard instead of just relying on handicap alone.

11 Re: Tea Tree Gully (SAAL) Handicaps on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:25 am

Running Man

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I don't think only your 800m wins affect your 800m handicap. Few years ago I won an 800m and went back 20m in my mile next time I lined up for one. Is he to win 6 of every race before getting pulled across the board?

I'm not questioning Ben's work ethic, credibility or integrity as a runner. I'm questioning his handicap given his numerous wins this season because going back 6m after the way in which he won some of his races is setting him up for another win if he runs to his ability again.

Ribera, the 800m at Whyalla is a straight final every year. I think there was around 15 runners in the final this year and every year it's a rather large race. I'd say it has more to do with quite often hot conditions and a 4 hour drive which would make running a heat and final to eliminate half the field too much to ask.

12 Re: Tea Tree Gully (SAAL) Handicaps on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:38 am

Ribera

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Fair enough Runningman, if that's the way it is done in SA.
I do not agree with that approach as it is not just a 6m pull. Others have been lifted, so the turn around in handicaps is greater than just 6m. I believe the onus is also on others to lift their standards and not just rely on handicap alone.

Anyway, I'll take my medicine and tone it down as Shark suggested Laughing

13 Re: Tea Tree Gully (SAAL) Handicaps on Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:22 am

Trackstar

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Nittaz. Agree that Ben Crawford is a hard worker, tough competitor and a great bloke, but give me a break on him being a "class athlete". 62m in the 8 is not a class runner's mark.
Anyone who runs from a mark greater than the novice mark is not a class athlete.
Reserve that tag for genuine backmarkers.
Good on him for getting the best from himself at 33. Great stuff!

14 Re: Tea Tree Gully (SAAL) Handicaps on Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:48 am

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Trackstar wrote:Nittaz. Agree that Ben Crawford is a hard worker, tough competitor and a great bloke, but give me a break on him being a "class athlete". 62m in the 8 is not a class runner's mark.
Anyone who runs from a mark greater than the novice mark is not a class athlete.
Reserve that tag for genuine backmarkers.
Good on him for getting the best from himself at 33. Great stuff!



Trackstar...you're obviously in a bubble! The day you run a 10 hr full ironman, then win the bay sheffield 1600m backmarkers, and then throw in a 550m win also is the day you realise what sort of athlete your dealing with. You can stay in your pro running bubble champ, but when you leave that bubble, crawf is stamping his mark on other athletic achievements....and it's the work required for these other events that makes his pro achievement so 'classy'

15 Re: Tea Tree Gully (SAAL) Handicaps on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:05 am

Trackstar

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Not living in a bubble. It's called the "real world". Notwithstanding Crawford's capacity to tolerate pain and hard work, that's impressive, but in pro-running the term "class athlete" is thrown around too often.
I've run from the back marks in the red colour, and have won in the red, but I don't consider myself a class athlete.
Josh Ross is class, so are your boys Caldow and Clay Watkins.
Crawford's a good pro runner on a crest of a wave but until he gets back with SA guys like Killmier, Boden, B Watkins and the select mile winner Reece Jones, Crawf's not a class athlete in my book.

Your entitled to your interpreation of class but sounds like anyone who wins a few races over there becomes class.



16 Re: Tea Tree Gully (SAAL) Handicaps on Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:30 pm

Downesy


Remaining absolutely impartial, as I'm not au fait with SA handicapping/meets etc, but Crawford's mile at Bay was a close 2nd to Ross's run (in my opinion). 4:05 off 135, on what could safely be called a slow(er) Colley Reserve, was pretty freakin' classy!

17 Re: Tea Tree Gully (SAAL) Handicaps on Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:07 pm

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Trackstar wrote:Not living in a bubble. It's called the "real world". Notwithstanding Crawford's capacity to tolerate pain and hard work, that's impressive, but in pro-running the term "class athlete" is thrown around too often.
I've run from the back marks in the red colour, and have won in the red, but I don't consider myself a class athlete.
Josh Ross is class, so are your boys Caldow and Clay Watkins.
Crawford's a good pro runner on a crest of a wave but until he gets back with SA guys like Killmier, Boden, B Watkins and the select mile winner Reece Jones, Crawf's not a class athlete in my book.

Your entitled to your interpreation of class but sounds like anyone who wins a few races over there becomes class.






So I'm unsure on you're examples trackstar. I mean lets use all the athletes mentioned there, and stick them over 1500m. I think Killmier has run 3.54 (probably capable of more no doubt), i can't remember bryce's last 1500m amo time, however perhaps 4.00 - 4.05 would be a guess? I remember bode may have run 3.58 for the 1500, or there abouts when running a higher mileage, however probably focusing more on the 400/800 combo now, which means he may struggle to break 4mins now? However Rhys is a 3.48, 1500m national finalist 2012. Now if you going to talk about class, I'm with Downsy. I think Crawf is around 4 - 4.05 for 1500m right now, and in fact speaking to crawf, he is thinking about popping down to the rubber track one soon. So in this case, Crawf would most likely be in 'class' of Watkins/Boden and killmiers current form. However Rhys is a class above with his 3.48. Speaking to Adam Didyk a while ago on our recent wine tour, he told me he won the back markers mile of 135m in a time of 3.58, even though he told the handicapper at the time he thought he'd win by 40m (which he did apparently). Now Adam was a class runner (if you are judging by the people you mentioned previously, and their associated times) and ran of 135m, and won well. So regardless of Adam's mark, and in this case Crawf's Mark, it was a class performance

If you want to be anal, Rhys just squeaked into the national final, and is far from the class of Gregson, Riesley and Roff...but then again, those guys are far from the class of Lagat, Komen, Hicham etc etc. However, on the day of the Bay shef, Crawfs run, 'in my opinion' was class!

So when you speak of class, are you talking about 'Pro Class' in relation to performances off handicaps? Because you sure as hell are not talking about 1500/1600m pb times?

See like i said at the start, he had a handicap of 135m but trains and performs like a guy running off less than that. However, the way the sport has worked out with Crawf's career....he DID have 135m, and also HAS 62m in the 800m. I'm not saying he needs it, as he has worked to get himself better than his mark. This is mainly because he trains like an athlete ABOVE his mark.

18 Re: Tea Tree Gully (SAAL) Handicaps on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:37 pm

vicinsider


Geez hasnt this thread been a whole lot of carry on!

Does it really matter? Crawford came took the chocolates and everyone, well almost everyone has moved on, and well done to him as well, ripping guy and puts his heart into every race, doesnt pull up and chase ticks, like other blokes who are probably complaining about his handicap pull.

Just get back on the track train hard and enjoy your racing, as there are many more bigger issues in life than whingeing about whether it should have been a 6m, 8m or 10m pull... cmon

19 Re: Tea Tree Gully (SAAL) Handicaps on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:39 am

JB


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Nittaz wrote:
So I'm unsure on you're examples trackstar. I mean lets use all the athletes mentioned there, and stick them over 1500m. I think Killmier has run 3.54 (probably capable of more no doubt), i can't remember bryce's last 1500m amo time, however perhaps 4.00 - 4.05 would be a guess? I remember bode may have run 3.58 for the 1500, or there abouts when running a higher mileage, however probably focusing more on the 400/800 combo now, which means he may struggle to break 4mins now? However Rhys is a 3.48, 1500m national finalist 2012. Now if you going to talk about class, I'm with Downsy. I think Crawf is around 4 - 4.05 for 1500m right now, and in fact speaking to crawf, he is thinking about popping down to the rubber track one soon. So in this case, Crawf would most likely be in 'class' of Watkins/Boden and killmiers current form. However Rhys is a class above with his 3.48. Speaking to Adam Didyk a while ago on our recent wine tour, he told me he won the back markers mile of 135m in a time of 3.58, even though he told the handicapper at the time he thought he'd win by 40m (which he did apparently). Now Adam was a class runner (if you are judging by the people you mentioned previously, and their associated times) and ran of 135m, and won well. So regardless of Adam's mark, and in this case Crawf's Mark, it was a class performance

If you want to be anal, Rhys just squeaked into the national final, and is far from the class of Gregson, Riesley and Roff...but then again, those guys are far from the class of Lagat, Komen, Hicham etc etc. However, on the day of the Bay shef, Crawfs run, 'in my opinion' was class!

So when you speak of class, are you talking about 'Pro Class' in relation to performances off handicaps? Because you sure as hell are not talking about 1500/1600m pb times?

See like i said at the start, he had a handicap of 135m but trains and performs like a guy running off less than that. However, the way the sport has worked out with Crawf's career....he DID have 135m, and also HAS 62m in the 800m. I'm not saying he needs it, as he has worked to get himself better than his mark. This is mainly because he trains like an athlete ABOVE his mark.
[b]

To be honest I think it is a bit of a cop out comparing an athlete who has solely run pro's to an amateur runner. Ben ran well to win the Bay off his mark and it was a good time for the mile on that track, but that is where it ends. I don't go around saying I have run a 46.8 400m because of my Camden win and try and say I am as good as people who have actually run under 47 seconds.

If Ben wants to come out and run a 1500m or an 800m against Rhys or whoever else that is competing and runs whatever time then so be it, but saying he might be in the same class with ammo runners like Bryce or myself.. maybe just wait until after the race has been run before making that statement.

Just for the record my PB was 3.57 back in 2007. I don't train for 1500m at all and ran 4.01 and 4.05 for a bit of fun in the past 12 months.

And personally, I'd love it if he came down to have a run.. could be fun having someone who usually would start behind him having a sit.

20 Re: Tea Tree Gully (SAAL) Handicaps on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:50 am

Guest

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JB wrote:
Nittaz wrote:
So I'm unsure on you're examples trackstar. I mean lets use all the athletes mentioned there, and stick them over 1500m. I think Killmier has run 3.54 (probably capable of more no doubt), i can't remember bryce's last 1500m amo time, however perhaps 4.00 - 4.05 would be a guess? I remember bode may have run 3.58 for the 1500, or there abouts when running a higher mileage, however probably focusing more on the 400/800 combo now, which means he may struggle to break 4mins now? However Rhys is a 3.48, 1500m national finalist 2012. Now if you going to talk about class, I'm with Downsy. I think Crawf is around 4 - 4.05 for 1500m right now, and in fact speaking to crawf, he is thinking about popping down to the rubber track one soon. So in this case, Crawf would most likely be in 'class' of Watkins/Boden and killmiers current form. However Rhys is a class above with his 3.48. Speaking to Adam Didyk a while ago on our recent wine tour, he told me he won the back markers mile of 135m in a time of 3.58, even though he told the handicapper at the time he thought he'd win by 40m (which he did apparently). Now Adam was a class runner (if you are judging by the people you mentioned previously, and their associated times) and ran of 135m, and won well. So regardless of Adam's mark, and in this case Crawf's Mark, it was a class performance

If you want to be anal, Rhys just squeaked into the national final, and is far from the class of Gregson, Riesley and Roff...but then again, those guys are far from the class of Lagat, Komen, Hicham etc etc. However, on the day of the Bay shef, Crawfs run, 'in my opinion' was class!

So when you speak of class, are you talking about 'Pro Class' in relation to performances off handicaps? Because you sure as hell are not talking about 1500/1600m pb times?

See like i said at the start, he had a handicap of 135m but trains and performs like a guy running off less than that. However, the way the sport has worked out with Crawf's career....he DID have 135m, and also HAS 62m in the 800m. I'm not saying he needs it, as he has worked to get himself better than his mark. This is mainly because he trains like an athlete ABOVE his mark.
[b]

To be honest I think it is a bit of a cop out comparing an athlete who has solely run pro's to an amateur runner. Ben ran well to win the Bay off his mark and it was a good time for the mile on that track, but that is where it ends. I don't go around saying I have run a 46.8 400m because of my Camden win and try and say I am as good as people who have actually run under 47 seconds.

If Ben wants to come out and run a 1500m or an 800m against Rhys or whoever else that is competing and runs whatever time then so be it, but saying he might be in the same class with ammo runners like Bryce or myself.. maybe just wait until after the race has been run before making that statement.

Just for the record my PB was 3.57 back in 2007. I don't train for 1500m at all and ran 4.01 and 4.05 for a bit of fun in the past 12 months.

And personally, I'd love it if he came down to have a run.. could be fun having someone who usually would start behind him having a sit.

Cop out, please? I was comparing your 1500m times as an 'estimate', and 3.57 is pretty solid. I also said Rhys was in a different class to 'everyone mentioned'. Depending on Crawfs commitments to the rest of the season, and his half ironman in June, I reckon he may run a 1500m on track in perhaps an invitation or so, but I'm not sure. I'll be sure to let you know JB. 4.01-5 though, I don't reckon he'll sit on you.

21 Re: Tea Tree Gully (SAAL) Handicaps on Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:33 am

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My thoughts are you need to be capable of winning behind the novice mark and nationally ranked to be considered class in pro-running. Can't make it any clearer than that.
What's class for elite amos is a different subject for a different thread.
Ben Crawford must be embarrassed by this thread by now. Me thinks he has a better understanding of where he ranks and wouldn't consider himself in the class of Watkins & Killmier let alone Boden. Boden is a sub 1-50 800m runner FFS.

22 Re: Tea Tree Gully (SAAL) Handicaps on Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:26 pm

yogizz


What does it mean to train 'harder?' If you mean train more often, than i think that this can be a little offending, or at the very least presumptuous! I would suggest that 90%-95% of athletes would love to train more (or 'harder'), but the simple fact of the matter is we are unable due to a small little by-stander called 'life!'

Me personally, i would love to train 'harder' (by that i mean more), but i can't as i have work, kids, mortgage, and other commitments (& i know that i'm not the only person)! So i make do with my three runs (including sessions & long runs) a week. But i can assure you i train my guts out (hard) during those three runs a week!

However, it does strike me as curious as to why an athlete of Ben. C calibre has such 'joy-ous' marks?! An athlete whom has won 6-7 races this season (3 rather big; could argue more) & was athlete of the season only 2 (or) 3 seasons ago!

For some of us, a reason why we compete in pro running is so that we can all have a chance!!! So that when we rock up to a race, we know that we have a chance of winning, not just competing for second, third, etc,etc. Or we may as well compete as amateurs (out at Santos). Unfortunately (as mentioned above), we all can't train 'harder!' Does this mean we are (or should be) at a disadvantage?

I also understand that an organisation such as SAAL, (or VAL & TAL for that matter) are unable to take into consideration all the variables (how 'hard' one trains, the intensity, etc, etc) to account when handicapping! They can only go on the information provided by an athlete & current season results. I believe what has been brought to light is that how has one athlete maintained such 'generous' marks across the board in light of his recent results. No one is questioning Ben. C work ethic or the integrity of Ben. C!

P.S. Ben. C is not the first, nor the last person to whom these current events have happened too!

23 Re: Tea Tree Gully (SAAL) Handicaps on Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:55 pm

racingmania


Thanks yogizz for some perspective.You're right yogizz. We all train hard. Bullshit comment to tell us to work harder. Crawford's won over 20 sashes with 6 this year. There's guys giving Crawf a start who haven't won 6 races in a career. I'm not begrudging him a win but would be nice if others were pushed out in the marks to win A sash......

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