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PROTRACK » GENERAL » ASA All Schools - U/18 Men's Sprint Review

ASA All Schools - U/18 Men's Sprint Review

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1 ASA All Schools - U/18 Men's Sprint Review on Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:37 am

youngy

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oys 100 Metre Dash U/18
=======================================================
Boys 100 Metre Dash U/18
=======================================================
Title Holder: 11.24 24/10/2009 Kayne Stubing, CORNERSTONE
Nats. Quali: # 11.14
Meet Record: * 10.89 1998 Ben Koschade
Name Age Team Prelims Finals Wind Points
=====================================================================================
Final
1 Michael Brusnahan Henley High 11.05 11.05# NWI
2 Jordan Caldow Brighton Secondary 11.56 11.08# NWI
3 Derek Mai Pembroke 11.17 11.17 NWI
4 Edward McLeish St Peter's College 11.43 11.41 NWI
5 Peter Clayer Pembroke 11.59 11.77 NWI
6 Tyson Schrapel Glossop High School 11.89 12.01 NWI

Fantastic race between three genuinely elite level juniors. Derek Mai is a former under age national champion and had basically dominated his age group since under 14. In the last 12 months, the landscape has changed dramatically with the emegence of Brusnahan & Caldow.

If all three went to the nationals they would make the final but unfortunately only two can run in Melbourne so Derek will miss out.

In the earlier heats, Brusnahan beat Mai 11.05 to 11.17, whilst Caldow cruised through his heat in 11.56.

Due to the unavailability of SANTOS stadium, ASA were forced to use Enfield's grass track for the All Schools

The grass track at Enfield was slightly longer than you would see at decent Gift track. It could have done with a mow. The 6-laned track has an obvious down hill gradient and for the final a fairly strong cross breeze sprung up.

Mai blew them away at the start and looked to be in front early with Caldow running 2nd and Brusnahan just behind him. At the 60, Mai was probably still slightly in front with Caldow joining him soon after. Brusnahan probaly got level about the 80m mark and with Caldow moved ahead of Mai with about 15m to go. Brusnahan continued his momentum and headed Caldow with probably 10 to go to win by just over a 1/4metre with Mai a metre away in 3rd spot.

Cracker of a race and hopefully these three lads will continue in the sport for many years as they are the most promising sprint talent to emerge together since the era of Sheehy, Ormrod & Koschade.


Boys 200 Metre Dash U/18
=====================================================================================
Title Holder: 22.95 25/10/2009 Alex Saliu, WILLUNGA HIG
Nats. Quali: # 22.64
Meet Record: * 22.28 27/10/2007 Wallace Long-Scafidi, CHRISTIES BEACH
Name Age Team Prelims Finals Wind Points
=====================================================================================
Final
1 Michael Brusnahan Henley High 23.0h 22.7h NWI
2 Jordan Caldow Brighton Secondary 24.2h 22.9h NWI
3 Edward McLeish St Peter's College 23.7h 23.6h NWI
4 Jack Harvey Saint Michaels 24.0h 23.9h NWI
5 Jack Clayfield St Peter's College 24.9h 24.9h NWI
6 Terrance Curley Rostrevor College 25.2h 26.0h NWI

I didn't attend on Sunday so I didn't see the 200m, but Brusnahan won in a hand held time of 22.7 to Caldow's 22.9. The 200m track is uphill for the last 80m as it runs in the opposite direction to the 100m sprint track which is run on the infield, adjacent to the home straight.


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2 Re: ASA All Schools - U/18 Men's Sprint Review on Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:20 am

Too Good

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Nice review. Caldow easily wins port adelaide gift off 7.50 and gets beat by brusnahan the next week. Brusnahan must be some runner.

Fast Kid

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Is Brusnahan running with the saal this year?

4 Re: ASA All Schools - U/18 Men's Sprint Review on Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:01 pm

???????

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Just Curious
When Todd Bateman won the Bay ,what times was Todd running over 100m and what was his handicap.
Would the times these young lads are running and the handicap they have be comparable to Bateman.

5 Re: ASA All Schools - U/18 Men's Sprint Review on Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:40 pm

yes man

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mate, this thread is about brusnahan, caldow mai and the new kids coming up. their the future of the sport. brusnahan's 200 pb is the same as bateman's. and brusnahan's 17 and bateman's 22. caldow's only been running track for 12 months and hes national beach champion. imho bateman has about 1 year left before these kids overtake him.

6 Re: ASA All Schools - U/18 Men's Sprint Review on Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:44 am

Good oil

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I have it on good authority, Brusnahan will run at the Bay Sheff.

The Guy

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Kind of a dumb post if you know anything about track and progressions.

Bateman ran 10.5 last year, Brusnahan 10.9 and you say it will be a year before he is overtaken?

Sorry mate. A hell of a lot easier to run 10.9 at 17 than 10.5 at 22, progression slows down substantially at around 16/17. Also what does the 200m even have to do with it? Todd is a 100m runner.

Admin

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The Guy wrote:Kind of a dumb post if you know anything about track and progressions.

Bateman ran 10.5 last year, Brusnahan 10.9 and you say it will be a year before he is overtaken?

Sorry mate. A hell of a lot easier to run 10.9 at 17 than 10.5 at 22, progression slows down substantially at around 16/17. Also what does the 200m even have to do with it? Todd is a 100m runner.

Running 10.9 easier at 17 than a 22 year old running 10.5? I think the stats suggest otherwise.

  • On the current rankings there are 12 senior athletes who have run 10.50 or better. Five of them are 22 or younger.

  • On the current rankings there are only four Under 18's who have run 10.94 or better.


Another take on it - 10.50 should be very easy for someone who could run 10.85 at 15.

On the other hand a 17 year old running 10.94 might not have been that easy if the same lad could only run 11.7 at 15.

http://protrack.easyforumlive.com

The Guy

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To respond,

Kind of curious how you felt you had to manipulate stats just a bit there. Why even bring up that there are 12 senior athletes 10.5 or better? We are talking about age here so we will ignore your first stat and move on to your second which is more accurate to the point of this post.

5 athletes 22 or under (so Todds age) have run 10.5 and 4 athletes brusnahans age have run his time or better. So that evens it out a little more. factoring for inconsistencies I would say that running 10.5 seems to be about as hard at 22 as running 10.9 at 17 IF we go purley by your stats.

However most of these athletes running 10.5 or better are highly motivated individuals which are dedicated to the sport in terms of their commitment to training. This probably goes for those running 10.6-10.8 in that senior range as well so a lot more people are working torwards acheiving that speed making the stats scewed in brusnahans favor where he can rank top 4 in the nation as he has less competition from motivated, driven individuals.

And as for improving from 10.85 to 10.5 , and 11.7 to 10.9 thats a bit of a silly statement on your part. As you may know it is a lot harder to improve the faster you get. going from 13-12 = easy, from 12-11 not difficult, from 11-10 nearly impossible. Consult your stats on that one.

10 Re: ASA All Schools - U/18 Men's Sprint Review on Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:58 pm

Admin

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I didn't manipulate any stats. Just told it like it was, as per the national rankings to prove the fallacy of your statement.

You claimed, and I quote "A hell of a lot easier to run 10.9 at 17 than 10.5 at 22".

Statistically your statement was proven wrong and you admit as much in your next post.

At least 'Yes Man' did say it was his opinion regarding Brusnahan overtaking Bateman within a year, at least I think that's what 'IMHO' means. That remains to be seen. It was merely an opinion and can be argued for and against; but it can't be proven categorically wrong.

AS the saying goes: "An opinion is like an arse hole, everyone's got one."

Regardless of how easy or hard anything is - Compare any 22 year old sprinter to what they could run at 15 and I doubt there would be too many running only 3.5m faster 7 years later! I'd reckon half a second would be the minimum improvement expected.

I don't need to consult stats on that, it is a fact of athletic life.

http://protrack.easyforumlive.com

11 Re: ASA All Schools - U/18 Men's Sprint Review on Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:14 pm

???????

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I didnt mean to bring on an argument of who is best between the young boys and Bateman.
I enjoy a punt so was trying to find out what the three boys chances on their handicaps would be like for winning the Bay compared to what handicap Bateman had and the times he was running when he won it.
Was Bateman off a similar mark and running similar time.

12 Re: ASA All Schools - U/18 Men's Sprint Review on Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:21 pm

confused

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Hey Admin, your stats are probably reliable and statements mildly valid, however stating that Todd's improvement over 7 years to be only 3.5m and should be around half a second are pretty ignorant!

At 15 life is a bit easier - school and training. After school, life changes, priorities change - relationships/work or study commitment to get through day to day - more responsibilities as such.

While these youngsters are fantastic athletes, lets hope that they CAN go on to improve this valid 'half a second improvement' while they get out of school.

Unfortunately the sport here isn't as rewarding, thus athletes are required to go out and work and change the ratio of work/training and priorities, with athletics not always being the major priority.

Fortunately for the sport, and SA, Todd has decided to keep running and still improve over this time - many of the athletes get lost between 17 - 23 (is this because they don't improve this amazing .5sec - perhaps?). None the less, todd is still in the sport, which gives him the opportunity to keep improving. Lets hope some of these youngsters can get down to 10.5 aswell and assist in the sprinters in SA to keep pushing down the times - this will assist Todd in having better competition, and perhaps get closer to that 10.4 (state record).

If the admin of this site is here to state facts such as an athlete should improve at least 0.5 sec between 15 to 22 years - has obviously not looked at all facts. Like he said though - its his opinion.

13 Re: ASA All Schools - U/18 Men's Sprint Review on Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:26 pm

The Guy

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Fair enough. However I would tend to disagree with you on the point that the majority of sprinters running 10.9 at 16/17 would improve more than 3.5m by 7 years time. I think you would find that the vast majority would tend to plateau rather then improve that much.

It's an entirely different story if the athlete is running 11.5 or a slower time. As per my last post it is much easier to improve from a slower time. But I think you are being a bit silly when you say it is a fact of athletic life that you should expect better than 3.5m improvement at least when you are running what Todd was running at 15/16 . So what you are saying is that Todd or any other 10.8-9 runner at 16/17 should expect more than a 3.5m improvment?

So lets look at that statement. More than 3.5m improvement = say between 4-6? so that would be in Todd's case 10.45 - 10.25 . interesting. How many 10.25-10.45 runners in australia in the age range of 20-30? 10?

So if there is 4-5 10.8-10.9 juniors every year that should expect this kind of improvement you outlined and the senior age range is say 10 years how come we don't have 40 10.2-10.4 runners in australia?

simple. It is hard to go from 10.8 to 10.3-4 even in 7 years. You seem to think its an easy task that should be expected. Clearly its not.

14 Re: ASA All Schools - U/18 Men's Sprint Review on Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:37 am

Admin

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Admin
Admin
The Guy wrote:Fair enough. However I would tend to disagree with you on the point that the majority of sprinters running 10.9 at 16/17 would improve more than 3.5m by 7 years time. I think you would find that the vast majority would tend to plateau rather then improve that much.

I did say the 7 years between 15 to 22. Be nice if you stuck to that time frame.

You raise an entirely different argument when you change the premise of the argument by adding a few years to the equation.

In terms of maturity, especially for an athlete, 16/17 is a lot different to 15.

And any athlete of any note should be capable of improving at least half a second over 100m between the ages of 15 and 22. That is a given.

Anyway, thanks for your contribution, 'The Guy' - the rest of your commentary makes a lot of sense and I tend to agree with most of it.

http://protrack.easyforumlive.com

15 Re: ASA All Schools - U/18 Men's Sprint Review on Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:48 am

Admin

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confused wrote:Hey Admin, your stats are probably reliable and statements mildly valid, however stating that Todd's improvement over 7 years to be only 3.5m and should be around half a second are pretty ignorant!

If the admin of this site is here to state facts such as an athlete should improve at least 0.5 sec between 15 to 22 years - has obviously not looked at all facts. Like he said though - its his opinion.

15 to 22 that's the time frame. That 7 years. Stick to the facts.

An improvement of 0.35 would be below what would be generally expected. And it is not my opinion, it would be a scientific fact that the vast majority of athletes would improve around 0.50s or more in the time span between the ages of 15 and 22.

So it's not ignorance nor an opinion.

I agree it's terrific Bateman is still running despite several setbacks over the years....would be terrible to see him give aths away for something like cycling.

http://protrack.easyforumlive.com

16 Re: ASA All Schools - U/18 Men's Sprint Review on Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:33 am

The Guy

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I love a healthy debate so thank you for your comments as well admin!

Ok so stick to one or the other.

When you make blanket statements like "15-22 would be expected to improve by .5 or more"

then yes I would agree with that statement. BECAUSE most kids arent running 10.8 at 15 so again back to my original argument most kids running say 12.0 at 15 should probably improve to 11.5 or a little better.

HOWEVER you are using this in a different context to suggest that bateman should have expected more improve atleast .5 or more. So what I am saying is that NO, it is not normal or expected to see improvements of atleast .5 in 15 year olds running as fast as 10.85.

So most 15 year olds running 10.85 should be running 10.3 - 10.1 in 7 years time??? Nah. Im not saying it never happens but is pretty rare and not "the norm". I would actually say if you took a sample size of youths running 10.8-10.9 Todd would be above the 50th percentile in improvement.

also I said 16/17 in my last argument as the original poster suggested brusnahan, who IS that age and running 10.9 will surpase bateman in a year. So obviously your conceding your .5 or more theory does not apply to 16/17 year olds (which by the way isnt a "few" years, its one or 2)

17 hack on Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:53 pm

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heard about this thread and couldnt help myself.

there is only two mods on this site isnt there? so im guessing its the one from SA.

admin, now im guessing two things;

ONE, you havent coached for very long, or havent coached long enough to be lucky enough to have someone run 10.85 at the age of 15 in your squad? I would like to see your "facts" on some of the freak juniors in the past running 10.7 or below, did they run 10.3-2?

TWO, surely you wouldnt know what an injury/injuries are. or if i am talking to the the right person, then i guess you might know exactly what it is? back injuries can result in major problems.

admin, the faster you get, the harder it is to get faster. but I know your coaching style is different? and EVERYONE improves in your group with NO hiccups. how many juniors have you brought through the ranks to run 10.7 or lower???Shocked

finally. have you had many athletes that have run under 11 seconds? 2-3? Embarassed

many questions to be answered for you here. I cant wait to see some of the results this year on the pro circuit, even though my squad's not running it. some people that have moved on from some squads should see some improvements, I hope they do otherwise they are going to look like dickheads! and good luck to the boys at nationals, SA should be up there for some medals in the junior sprints! In the seniors we'll have to rely on YGTS again as they are still the only squad to have open medallists in the last 15 years. Laughing

18 Re: ASA All Schools - U/18 Men's Sprint Review on Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:47 pm

Mex

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I would go back into your box now Hack

19 Re: ASA All Schools - U/18 Men's Sprint Review on Sun Oct 31, 2010 3:23 pm

Thinker

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Admin.Whenever any unnamed get personal,suggest you don't answer them just delete or stand the risk of the forum deteriorating to another Bradley like site.

20 Re: ASA All Schools - U/18 Men's Sprint Review on Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:01 pm

Thinker

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GENERAL

[u]General Pro-running[/u] and other athletic matters.

I do not know about others but i for one am heartily sick to death of the petty squabbling that seems to come out of SA.The name of this site is protrack and on this point Especially in SA youngy has a record 2nd to none.Why is it that the minute anything to do with the amateur side of things is mentioned everything turns into a bun fight.
Any athlete at any time has the right to change coaches, although a lot of the time they(the coaches) get the blame for the athletes own inability to focus on the job at hand.
The majority of people on this site are on it for information,results and constructive exchanges and it would be most desirable for the other persuasion to F/ck off back to the other forum that they have already turned to a boring piece of crap and stop boring others with their child like behavior.On second thoughts I'm being a bit harsh on the kids.

21 Re: ASA All Schools - U/18 Men's Sprint Review on Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:05 am

Guest

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Im happy to keep this civil. I like this forum, good info and could be good for positive discussion. and could turn into a very good place for discussion and debate about running in general. the big american forums are great for all of this.

22 Re: ASA All Schools - U/18 Men's Sprint Review on Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:15 pm

Mex

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How about we worry about the racing now. Lets talk results, form, who's hiding, tips and handicaps from now hey.

The best I feel is when I am able to get to the track for training with my stable and waiting for the gun to go before we start a race. Don't ruin that for any of us.

23 Re: ASA All Schools - U/18 Men's Sprint Review on Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:35 pm

Old pro

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by hack: finally. have you had many athletes that have run under 11 seconds? 2-3?

Sorry to drag this up but I wonder what this sort of amateur crap has got to do with a mainly prorunning website? This is a prorunning site so prorunning success is what counts. Having under 11 second runners means shit if you stuff up their careers when they could be winning a major gift.

better question would be - How many major Gift or race winners have you trained?

24 Re: ASA All Schools - U/18 Men's Sprint Review on Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:12 pm

guess

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HERE HERE.

25 youth sprint coach - U/18 scout on Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:56 pm

coach

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Dynamic St Peter's duo Edward Mcleish and Jack Clayfield also tore the track up, being bottom agers (under 17's) able to experience a tough battle against Brusnahan and Caldow. Look out for these boys in the future, especially considering this was Clayfield's first meet.

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